Day ahead electricity prices for EU • Hacker News Board

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#311

Post by PeterisP » Sat, Aug 27, 2022, 5:12 PM UTC

xvedejas wrote: post #191

pclmulqdq wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have people considered battery trucks? I don't mean battery-powered trucks, but trucks full of batteries. It seems kind of silly when you can use hydrogen or natural gas in your trucks instead, but battery trucks may be the lowest-loss form of long-distance electricity transport.

Without thinking too hard about the efficiency, it's clearly just not a _safe_ proposition with our current best (most energy-dense per weight) batteries.

Gasoline has much more energy density per weight than batteries, and we truck that around all the time.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#312

Post by adrianN » Sat, Aug 27, 2022, 5:12 PM UTC

peteradio wrote: post #308

Reason077 wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The transmission issues will be solved: more and more HVDC interconnections start construction in Europe every year. Grids that still rely heavily on coal and natural gas can, and will, be improved. An EV bought today will only get cleaner as the grid gets cleaner. A new fossil-fuel vehicle today will always be dependent on fossil fuels, and will always pollute at least as much as the day it was purchased.

How many neighbors on a block of houses can have simultaneous charging?

All of them? The typical car is moved less than 100km per day and is parked upwards of twenty hours a day. With a kilowatt or two you car charge the car.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#313

Post by zionic » Sat, Aug 27, 2022, 5:13 PM UTC

pojzon wrote: post #175

pveierland wrote: post #50

Current spot price in northern Norway is €10.16/MWh, while it is €745.08/MWh in southern Norway (73x the price), largely due to limitations in transport networks between the electricity zones. The price in the northern zone is so low that some hydro plants have stopped producing electricity as they would be losing money at the current price level. https://www.skandiaenergi.no/dagens-spotpriser/ Electricity Maps has a…

Ive tried to explain this issue to EVs fanatics, but nobody listens. Anytime you mention energy transmision issues - you get total backlash. We wasted EU money on pointless stuff while we could have upgraded our transit cables etc.

I’m just exhausted from arguing with the electrically illiterate.

HVDC makes transmission from state to state trivial at almost no loss. We should have a national HVDC grid so that a breeze in Texas might power a toaster in Connecticut.

Instead we have another $XX Billion for Ukraine. Another $13B here for a new carrier we’ll never need etc etc. So much waste everywhere while fundamental problems go unsolved.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#314

Post by zionic » Sat, Aug 27, 2022, 5:15 PM UTC

foxhill wrote: post #303

Reason077 wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The transmission issues will be solved: more and more HVDC interconnections start construction in Europe every year. Grids that still rely heavily on coal and natural gas can, and will, be improved. An EV bought today will only get cleaner as the grid gets cleaner. A new fossil-fuel vehicle today will always be dependent on fossil fuels, and will always pollute at least as much as the day it was purchased.

even if it ran on gasoline created from carbon dioxide extracted from the atmosphere?

That gasoline wouldn’t be an energy source, it’d be an extremely crappy battery.

Far better to just send the power via grid to an EV @95% then toss 60% or more of it to make a gallon of gas

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#315

Post by jotm » Sat, Aug 27, 2022, 5:15 PM UTC

unyttigfjelltol wrote: post #80

pveierland wrote: post #50

Current spot price in northern Norway is €10.16/MWh, while it is €745.08/MWh in southern Norway (73x the price), largely due to limitations in transport networks between the electricity zones. The price in the northern zone is so low that some hydro plants have stopped producing electricity as they would be losing money at the current price level. https://www.skandiaenergi.no/dagens-spotpriser/ Electricity Maps has a…

All energy problem reduce to problems of energy transportation. We have a huge fusion reactor in the sky. The challenge is capture and transit. The problem is not incidental; it's fundamental.

As long as people won't even try to install a solar concentrator while bitching about rising prices, I won't take any of them seriously.

Such a simple design, can be used for at least heating water for 3-6 months. But nah.

Same for which the roofs. You don't have a white/silver roof on your house? Fuck you.

On that note, you like cruise ships? Also fuck you.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#316

Post by spaceman_2020 » Sat, Aug 27, 2022, 5:19 PM UTC

raverbashing wrote: post #284

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany’s obsession with solar and wind is absolutely baffling. It takes very little to know that Germany simply does not have the conditions for large scale solar. Yet it was pushed so heavily in lieu of nuclear power. Absurd.

And yet, right now, solar is 20% of the electricity on the grid in Germany. Wind is 15% (per the electrictymaps app) Sure it would be better if it was a sunnier place, still...

You should see how much they’ve invested in solar to hit that mark, and how much capacity is being unutilized

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#317

Post by roflyear » Sat, Aug 27, 2022, 5:20 PM UTC

thepasswordis wrote: post #195

sprak wrote: post #23

Sweden has four zones and according to [1] tomorrow's price will be from north to south: Zone 1: 14,25 cents/kWh Zone 2: 14,25 cents/kWh Zone 3: 108,64 cents/kWh Zone 4: 201,63 cents/kWh 1 Swedish krona is 0,094 USD. So between 1,3 and 20 American cents per kWh. Most people live in Zone 3 followed by Zone 4. Facebook's datacenter is in Zone 1. [1]: https://elen.nu

To put this into more human terms: a tesla model Y has a 75kwh battery. So this means to charge it, at home, would cost between $0.75, $2.25, and $15. A normal air conditioner uses about 3.5kw. So if it runs for 6 hours a day, so 21kwh/day. $0.21/day, $0.63/day, and $4.2/day.

How much in Cali?

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#318

Post by stepbeek » Sat, Aug 27, 2022, 5:20 PM UTC

jotm wrote: post #315

unyttigfjelltol wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All energy problem reduce to problems of energy transportation. We have a huge fusion reactor in the sky. The challenge is capture and transit. The problem is not incidental; it's fundamental.

As long as people won't even try to install a solar concentrator while bitching about rising prices, I won't take any of them seriously. Such a simple design, can be used for at least heating water for 3-6 months. But nah. Same for which the roofs. You don't have a white/silver roof on your house? Fuck you. On that note, you like cruise ships? Also fuck you.

> Same for which the roofs. You don't have a white/silver roof on your house? Fuck you.

Why?

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#319

Post by foxhill » Sat, Aug 27, 2022, 5:23 PM UTC

zionic wrote: post #314

foxhill wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

even if it ran on gasoline created from carbon dioxide extracted from the atmosphere?

That gasoline wouldn’t be an energy source, it’d be an extremely crappy battery. Far better to just send the power via grid to an EV @95% then toss 60% or more of it to make a gallon of gas

it’s a more practical solution for right now though. we can’t expect the world to switch its entire infrastructure overnight, or even quickly. yes, the rich nations might get a head start, but they represent such a small fraction of emissions.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#320

Post by kyriakos » Sat, Aug 27, 2022, 5:24 PM UTC

MomoXenosaga wrote: post #238

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany’s obsession with solar and wind is absolutely baffling. It takes very little to know that Germany simply does not have the conditions for large scale solar. Yet it was pushed so heavily in lieu of nuclear power. Absurd.

In an ideal world countries like Spain and Greece invest in solar but they're completely incompetent. So you get the absurd situation that the Netherlands is European leader in solar energy lol. Most densely populated country in Europe has solar parks for fuck sake.

I live in Cyprus which experiences sunshine almost 365 days a year and has an isolated power grid from the rest of the world. We also suffer from the incompetency of Greece and Spain but I believe solar parks are not the solution. Building solar parks is a waste of land which could be used for other purposes (agriculture for example). A much better solution is to ensure every single building has solar panels on its roof. Until recently there was no incentive or motivation for this but during the past 6 months with increasing electricity costs there has been a shift to PV to the point that cost of setup has almost doubled but people are still installing them. We're heading in the right direction but it will take years for energy independence.