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Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

electronicsweekly.com

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Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#311

Post by TulliusCicero »

PKop wrote: post #302
TulliusCicero wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, the US interest of not funding Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Heaven forbid any Europeans have any interest themselves in not helping a warmonger. Obviously they can only do this at the behesr of Uncle Sam.

It is only my claim that their interests are not completely aligned. US is much more energy independent and gepolitically secure across the ocean from whatever happens on the "world-island" [0]. Whereas Europe might directly suffer from instability and chaos, as well as loss of Russian energy supplies, the US would not and in relative terms becomes stronger if Europe is severed from Russian energy, and the continent…

> Europe having tight relations with Russia, economically especially energy-wise, is greatly beneficial to Europe

You're once again excluding any calculations of Russia using the money to run around overthrowing democracies. "It's greatly beneficial if you ignore all the mass murder."

The whole reason why they're now cancelling NS2 is because of this. Germany likes cheap energy, sure, but they're less than enthused about the money paying for that cheap energy going into executing and raping civilians in Ukraine.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#312

Post by alaricus »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #284
PKop wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are dependent on and subservient to the US and its geopolitical interests. We see this right now with Germany self-sabotaging it's own economy and industrial power by cutting off cheap Russian energy at the direction of US policy interests (Nord Stream 2 was agreed upon for years between Russia and Germany but thwarted at every turn, sanctioned etc by US).

Ah yes, the US interest of not funding Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Heaven forbid any Europeans have any interest themselves in not helping a warmonger. Obviously they can only do this at the behesr of Uncle Sam.

No post body was provided.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#313

Post by alaricus »

solarkraft wrote: post #251
alaricus wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Subsidizing an American company is not necessary for Germany's security. In fact, it undermines it.

The fab is still here. Ownership can change in the worst case. It would be nice to have a leading EU-owned chip maker, but we just don't have that yet. For the short term and the worst of cases, just having the thing matters a lot more than the profits staying here.

That fab won't make any sense without Intel's suppy chain.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#315

Post by Panoramix »

alaricus wrote: post #107
jakobov wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's about national security. A fab is necessary for national security

Subsidizing an American company is not necessary for Germany's security. In fact, it undermines it.

That's a silly and naive take. This investment will tremendously boost the semiconductor ecosystem in Germany. In the long run, this will do wonders when German companies want to or have to expand their capabilities, find more employees, design, package or assemble chips, buy wafers, equipment, supply chain, you name it.

It's about building an ecosystem, much like SV. People on HN of all places should know this.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#316

Post by alfalfasprout »

paganel wrote: post #300

Stupid move by Germany, giving even more money to the US corporations. In fact, the EU as a whole is presently doing just that, those Next Generation EU funds will, for a great part, find their place in the coffers of the big US tech companies. It goes like this: EU gives billions of dollars to EU national governments but with many strings attached -> an important part of those strings is related to digitisation -> t…

It's not very well stupid though if there isn't a great viable alternative, is it?

The issue with there being no good local competitors is a more fundamental one-- it's extremely difficult to spin up a viable tech business in the EU, period. In part, this boils down to regulatory issues including tech companies needing to abide by a myriad of complex regulations but also things like fairly costly labor regulations.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#317

Post by rmah »

amelius wrote: post #47
joker99 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct, but ASML is not a chip fab

I think the point was that high-tech shouldn't be concentrated in one location. What if ASML was in China?

Well, as far as I can tell, China is seems willing to sell just about anything to anyone as long as they can pay.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#318

Post by alaricus »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #311
PKop wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is only my claim that their interests are not completely aligned. US is much more energy independent and gepolitically secure across the ocean from whatever happens on the "world-island" [0]. Whereas Europe might directly suffer from instability and chaos, as well as loss of Russian energy supplies, the US would not and in relative terms becomes stronger if Europe is severed from Russian energy, and the continent…

> Europe having tight relations with Russia, economically especially energy-wise, is greatly beneficial to Europe You're once again excluding any calculations of Russia using the money to run around overthrowing democracies. "It's greatly beneficial if you ignore all the mass murder." The whole reason why they're now cancelling NS2 is because of this. Germany likes cheap energy, sure, but they're less than enthused a…

The world doesn't revolve around "America vs Russia". There are lots of other things going on.

And if you are looking for a mass murderer, is there a bigger mass murderer than USA after 20 years of mass murder in the Middle East?

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#319

Post by BurningFrog »

wazoox wrote: post #270
ISL wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is very important for national stability. A highly-interconnected global economy is arguably better at securing international stability.

That was the main argument for global trade already in 1914. France was Germany's most important commercial partner, and vice-versa. All German rifles had stocks made from French walnut wood! All French locomotives had German-made tubing! This stupid mantra was repeated ad nauseam after 1991, too, with silly op-eds from Friedman and friends about how two countries with McDonald joints in both can't be at war and simi…

This is the same logic that because some vaccinated people get Covid, vaccines are stupid and don't work.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#320

Post by systemvoltage »

abledon wrote: post #283
wazoox wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was the main argument for global trade already in 1914. France was Germany's most important commercial partner, and vice-versa. All German rifles had stocks made from French walnut wood! All French locomotives had German-made tubing! This stupid mantra was repeated ad nauseam after 1991, too, with silly op-eds from Friedman and friends about how two countries with McDonald joints in both can't be at war and simi…

more interconnectedness = less % chance of war not absolute 0 % chance of war

I like how everyone here is doing precise statistics on something so imprecise as geopolitics.
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