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San Francisco cops pull over a Cruise driverless car for no lights on

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Re: San Francisco cops pull over a Cruise driverless car for no lights on

#311

Post by gunapologist99 »

IgorPartola wrote: post #88

Being used to riding motorcycles in the US, why are headlights not always on for all vehicles at this point? LED bulbs last a very long time and there is little reason to not have them on during the day. I know, it’s much more fun to anthropomorphize the car in this case, but the simple solution is to just hard wire them.

It's required in Canada, but in the US, we tend to prefer our freedoms. There are also credible scenarios, say when someone is being stalked, when you would want to keep them off for security reasons; or, if you are parked in front of a house, or pulling into your driveway, perhaps you just don't want them to rake across the front windows and wake your sleeping children up. Many people won't buy a GM vehicle for precisely this reason.

Re: San Francisco cops pull over a Cruise driverless car for no lights on

#312

Post by snovv_crash »

yc-kraln wrote: post #136
snovv_crash wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US driving test standards are still a joke compared to overseas.

There is no such thing as "US" driving test standards. Each state has its own requirements. Some are quite weak, and some are very vigorous: For instance, Maryland driving licenses are accepted 1:1 as equivalent to the German driving license, you can exchange them without an exam or test. NY and CA... do not simply transfer.

I don't think any US state requires you to take several full-day courses after getting your license, for snow and ice handling, as is required in Switzerland for example. Also the road tests I've seen are a joke compared to both the Swiss and South African tests, both of which I've gone through. Requirements to check your mirrors every 10 seconds. Check your blind spot before indicating, then again, before merging. Reverse alley docking and parallel parking in tight spaces. Emergency braking from a fixed speed within a certain distance.

Of course, after years of practice this is how you should be driving. But almost nobody who doesn't explicitly practice for the test can actually pass.

Whether a license is accepted reciprocally is more a political decision than based on test stringency.

Re: San Francisco cops pull over a Cruise driverless car for no lights on

#313

Post by wang_li »

jwr wrote: post #72

I am really worried by the fact that I am the unwilling tester in the Great Driverless Car Experiment. Tradition has it that when you load-test a new bridge, you put the architect underneath. I feel like this, except I didn't design those driverless cars, somebody else did. Being an experienced software engineer, my trust in the software in these cars is pretty low. And yet they are testing them on me, because I can…

>I think we should set a much higher bar for allowing those cars on the streets, rather than "it kinda works, so let's roll with it".

Indeed. The minimum before any self driving car can be put on the road is that the developers, managers, executives, and major investors and their immediate families have to spend 8 hours running back and forth across a track on which 40 self driving cars per mile of track are running laps at a minimum of 50 MPH. Additionally there need to be things like rains of nails on the road, suddenly floods of water, packs of dogs, tumbling tumbleweeds, and other hazards. If at any point the average speed drops below 50 MPH or if the cars hit anyone or hit each other, the car can't go on public roads.

Re: San Francisco cops pull over a Cruise driverless car for no lights on

#314

Post by post_break »

dharmab wrote: post #228
post_break wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Headlights do burn out. I'd rather not pay $1,000-$2,000 to replace my headlights since they are LED built into the headlight. I'd much rather have auto headlights be mandated. Even that can be a pain in the ass if you have HID bulbs and travel in areas where they turn on and off often reducing the life of them. https://www.hondapartsnow.com/parts-list/2021-honda-accord--...

Automotive LEDs made by an OEM should not burn out for the life of the vehicle.

Should not sure, but I have seen people on the Accord forums complaining about headlight leds being dead, and being shocked at the replacement cost.

Re: San Francisco cops pull over a Cruise driverless car for no lights on

#315

Post by throwawayboise »

dylan604 wrote: post #261
formerly_proven wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hearsay is that you have to drive more than 100 000 km in diverse conditions with the right mindset in order to become a fluent and experienced driver. With an average mileage, that will take most people around a decade after beginning to drive. Most people never seem to become fluent, experienced drivers, because they lack the practice, or the mindset, or both.

Exactly, except, I'm not sure where the 100,000km condition was established. I'm in North Texas, so I have a personal rule that if the temps are forecasted to be below freezing with any form of precipitation, I do not leave the house. People make moronic decisions on how to drive in those conditions because it doesn't happen enough and as a collective, proper ability to drive is forgotten every single time.

That is my experience from one visit to the Arlington area years ago. One morning it was below freezing and there were some icy patches especially on bridges. Drivers were either creeping at 2mph or spinning out. There didn't seem to be anyone on the road who knew how to handle it.

Re: San Francisco cops pull over a Cruise driverless car for no lights on

#316

Post by snovv_crash »

logifail wrote: post #144
snovv_crash wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends. If it's an issue with just that vehicle then yes, you don't ground the whole fleet. If it's non-safety-critical, then it needs to be fixed asap but nothing gets grounded. If it's safety critical, then yes, all planes are grounded. But, I'd argue FAA levels of safety aren't suitable for cars. If a car has an engine failure or even a structural failure, they can usually just stop. Planes don't have that opt…

> I'd argue FAA levels of safety aren't suitable for cars. If a car has an engine failure or even a structural failure, they can usually just stop. Planes don't have that option. I had supposed we were thinking primarily about software faults and specifically those relating to the self-driving bit of a self-driving car. Best case: self-driving car gets lost and is found with flat battery miles from "home" (?) Worst-c…

> To be blunt: if the algo kills, why wouldn't you ground the algo (all instances of it)?

It depends what the alternative is. If it crashes less than humans, then you keep running it despite the flaws.

Re: San Francisco cops pull over a Cruise driverless car for no lights on

#317

Post by WindyCityBrew »

carapace wrote: post #272
jwr wrote: post #72

I am really worried by the fact that I am the unwilling tester in the Great Driverless Car Experiment. Tradition has it that when you load-test a new bridge, you put the architect underneath. I feel like this, except I didn't design those driverless cars, somebody else did. Being an experienced software engineer, my trust in the software in these cars is pretty low. And yet they are testing them on me, because I can…

This. These robots are massive and fast, they are killers. Yet as long as they look like cars we let them run loose on public streets. It's kinda nuts. (Arguably car traffic as it's set up now is kinds nuts too, but that's a different argument.) The obvious thing to do is start with something like a golf cart that is limited to, say, 5mph top speed, and work your way up.

Lol.

Drunk drivers are killers. People that text and drive are killers. People that get kicked by their kid and turn around for a second to yell at them are killers.

I'll take an unfatigable, indistractable, computer that literally has eyes in the back of its head, and on the side of its head, and the front, and can bounce radar under cars, etc over the pitiful example of a "safe (human) driver" we have now.

Re: San Francisco cops pull over a Cruise driverless car for no lights on

#318

Post by snovv_crash »

QuarterReptile wrote: post #198
yc-kraln wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no such thing as "US" driving test standards. Each state has its own requirements. Some are quite weak, and some are very vigorous: For instance, Maryland driving licenses are accepted 1:1 as equivalent to the German driving license, you can exchange them without an exam or test. NY and CA... do not simply transfer.

The interesting thing is that Maryland drivers are among the worst I've seen over a wider spectrum of factors. Sober California drivers seem pretty safe. Virginia drivers are miserable on interstates because they pass one another at 1-3mph differentials (I assume this is a response to the reputed harsh soeeding enforcement there) and are victims of often-wrong signage, but are otherwise uninteresting. South Carolina…

Maybe the stricter tests are a result of the bad driving, and not vice versa.

Re: San Francisco cops pull over a Cruise driverless car for no lights on

#319

Post by throwawayboise »

gunapologist99 wrote: post #311
IgorPartola wrote: post #88

Being used to riding motorcycles in the US, why are headlights not always on for all vehicles at this point? LED bulbs last a very long time and there is little reason to not have them on during the day. I know, it’s much more fun to anthropomorphize the car in this case, but the simple solution is to just hard wire them.

It's required in Canada, but in the US, we tend to prefer our freedoms. There are also credible scenarios, say when someone is being stalked, when you would want to keep them off for security reasons; or, if you are parked in front of a house, or pulling into your driveway, perhaps you just don't want them to rake across the front windows and wake your sleeping children up. Many people won't buy a GM vehicle for prec…

When I had a GM car with daytime lights, they would switch off if you applied the parking brake. So a trick is to apply the parking brake enough that the lights go out (happens at the same time the parking brake indicator illuminates on the dash), but not enough to really grab the wheels. Then you can pull into a driveway with the lights off.

Re: San Francisco cops pull over a Cruise driverless car for no lights on

#320

Post by _greim_ »

IgorPartola wrote: post #88

Being used to riding motorcycles in the US, why are headlights not always on for all vehicles at this point? LED bulbs last a very long time and there is little reason to not have them on during the day. I know, it’s much more fun to anthropomorphize the car in this case, but the simple solution is to just hard wire them.

> LED bulbs last a very long time

LEDs are a high-end feature even in new cars, never mind all the existing cars on the road.

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