Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022 • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#311

Post by saltminer » Tue, Dec 28, 2021, 5:16 PM UTC

Nextgrid wrote: post #189

zinekeller wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They did - see EMV payment cards for example. To drive the point home - this is a SIM card: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/55/Thuraya_... (although you can remove the mini-sim in this revision, originally they were exactly like modern EMV cards). Again, if you're skeptical of the government itself and allowing them to tap your communication lines, then I understand your hesitation here (although 2…

> probably because there's a waiting period (usually 48 hours) enforced where the current holder of the SIM card gets warnings about the impeding deactivation in other countries Not sure what's going on in other countries, but back when I was a phone store monkey in the UK this was not the case. A SIM swap could be done immediately and the previous SIM doesn't get any notification. If I remember right we needed to ch…

> There was bruteforce protection, but here's the fun part - it was presumably implemented on the frontend only because you could reload the page on the last attempt and reset the counter of attempts! There were no consequences that I know of (neither from the company nor a notification/follow-up with the customer) to locking out an account either.

Back when I had to use AllScripts EHR software, if I messed up my password three times, I'd just restart the client application. Bam, three more attempts, no need to wait ten minutes.

(I don't know if this is still the case, but I sure hope it's not.)

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#312

Post by smoovb » Tue, Dec 28, 2021, 5:18 PM UTC

CubsFan1060 wrote: post #185

mettamage wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's a niche hobby (though I could be wrong as I have no data on it, just some thoughts). Any person that travels frequently has at least entertained the thought of buying a local SIM. Many people have actually done so. For example, I went to Sweden for a month, and in those days calling in the EU wasn't a thing. I bought a Swedish SIM for if I'd meet people there (and I did). 10 years later, I traveled…

Isn't it just a different freedom? Just looking at Thailand, I see many prepaid esim providers: https://esimdb.com/thailand Also (I don't know anything about Thailand, just just some quick searching), it seems at least the largest provider in Thailand has essentially the same service: https://www.ais.th/esim/en/ where you can buy the eSim either online or in a shop.

Thailand travel SIMs, like the DTAC Tourist SIM, are usually purchased in the airport after you get luggage and pass immigration. Now that this same SIM is sold online as an eSIM, you can buy it before you arrive. Skipping that extra step seems to be a plus over physical SIMs.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#313

Post by pessimizer » Tue, Dec 28, 2021, 5:18 PM UTC

mrcode007 wrote: post #300

neon_electro wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From your own link: > A virtual SIM is a mobile phone number provided by a mobile network operator that does not require a SIM card to connect phone calls to a user's mobile phone. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIM_card#Other_variants This isn't about Apple becoming an MVNO, this is about Apple somehow controlling the process of configuring your phone because you no longer have the option to choose a SIM card and ins…

This is FUD. It’s about streamlining configuration of plans and activation and getting rid of physical widget https://www.t-mobile.com/support/tutorials/topic/esim/activa...

This is marketing. It's about putting Apple in the middle of plans and activation, and getting rid of a physical standard.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#314

Post by colechristensen » Tue, Dec 28, 2021, 5:20 PM UTC

I use an eSIM through Google Fi and it’s a mess. There is a precise ceremony that has to be followed, isn’t well documented, and every time I have had to restart the process fresh multiple times.

Simple physical interfaces are far superior.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#315

Post by takeda » Tue, Dec 28, 2021, 5:21 PM UTC

truculent wrote: post #309

apozem wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they'll use whatever volume they free up to mindlessly make the phone thinner. It's funny this commenter accuses Apple of mindlessness when they did not look up that the iPhone 13 and 13 Pro are thicker than their respective counterparts from last year. https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?modelList=iphone13,iph...

Other features like battery life are clearly more important to people than thinness and that seems to be catching on with manufacturers (although weight still matters). I would speculate that removal of the physical SIM card is more likely to be about one (or a combination) of: * Apple taking even more control over the device * Making it marginally more difficult to switch to another brand's ecosystem * Resilience (e…

> * Resilience (e.g. water/dust proofing).

Phones already were water proof when they had sim cards and phone jack.

While I never owned an iPhone, those changes annoy me immensely. The reason for it is that Android manufacturers are copying all of that. I'm currently want to update phone, and want one with sd card and phone jack. Those two things make my selection much smaller. And looking at trends looks like very soon it will be similarly gone as physical keyboard is.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#316

Post by DenseComet » Tue, Dec 28, 2021, 5:21 PM UTC

sersi wrote: post #230

arthur_sav wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Realistically when was the last time you switched your SIM card? I only change it when i change phones.

I have 4 SIM cards from 4 different countries that I need to keep. Mostly because I have bank accounts in those countries and banks either dislike foreign mobile phone numbers or accept them but then are unable to send any 2fa tokens quickly enough to those foreign phone numbers for the 2fa tokens to still be valid. So, I actually wish I had a quadruple sim phone, as it is I have two dual sim phones to handle this (w…

You can't do quadruple esim, but arguably the experience with 4 esims on a single device is much better than carrying 4 sims.

"You can store more than one eSIM in your iPhone, but you can use only one at a time. To switch eSIMs, tap Settings, tap either Cellular or Mobile Data, and then tap the plan you want to use. Then tap Turn On This Line." [1]

On the iPhone 13, you can actually use two esims at the same time.

[1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT209044

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#317

Post by snowwolf » Tue, Dec 28, 2021, 5:22 PM UTC

lajamerr wrote: post #208

tablespoon wrote: post #193

I don't like it. Having a physical object the embodies your phone's identity is a lot easier to deal with in many ways than an ethereal emulation of said object. For instance, if I'm traveling I can just buy a SIM card at a kiosk and pop it in, even if I can only communicate through little more than pointing and grunting. Another example: I got a new phone recently, but since all my stuff was still on my old phone, a…

I imagine a world where you just a bring a phone anywhere and it you open your network settings, go to your cellular data menu, and then automatically it detects the mobile network providers that support the towers it can see. Then you tap on the one you want, select the package you want, pay for it from that menu and then bam you are connected. All without having an existing Wi-Fi or Cellular data plan. There needs…

My ideal goes further than that. All I want is a reasonable data plan with non extortionate roaming rates from my existing provider (phone service is not important to me these days due to FaceTime/WhatsApp/etc). Some providers were starting to offer decent roaming to a large selection of countries that came out of your existing allowance with no additional charge but they seem to have started rolling back on that now as margins are getting squeezed. There is no reason for roaming charges for 1 week to be higher than the cost of a 1 month pre-paid local sim.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#318

Post by neilalexander » Tue, Dec 28, 2021, 5:24 PM UTC

I am skeptical about this. There are hundreds of mobile operators worldwide and many of them do not support eSIM. Admittedly Apple are no stranger to pulling stunts that upset users but removing something core to the very critical feature of the device (that is, a phone working as a phone) is surely unlikely?

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#319

Post by takeda » Tue, Dec 28, 2021, 5:26 PM UTC

lajamerr wrote: post #208

tablespoon wrote: post #193

I don't like it. Having a physical object the embodies your phone's identity is a lot easier to deal with in many ways than an ethereal emulation of said object. For instance, if I'm traveling I can just buy a SIM card at a kiosk and pop it in, even if I can only communicate through little more than pointing and grunting. Another example: I got a new phone recently, but since all my stuff was still on my old phone, a…

I imagine a world where you just a bring a phone anywhere and it you open your network settings, go to your cellular data menu, and then automatically it detects the mobile network providers that support the towers it can see. Then you tap on the one you want, select the package you want, pay for it from that menu and then bam you are connected. All without having an existing Wi-Fi or Cellular data plan. There needs…

You can do all of that with SIM already. The only restriction placed is by cell providers. You either use roaming feature, or if you use SIM that supposed to use multiple providers (like Google Fi) then it can use multiple networks.

This change is bad for the customer no matter what. It's similar to me to what Verizon had during CDMA days.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#320

Post by Isthatablackgsd » Tue, Dec 28, 2021, 5:27 PM UTC

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #129

jwr wrote: post #66

I am very worried about this. While I love (and sometimes use) eSIMs, the physical SIM has a huge advantage in that it gives me freedom. It's the revolution that GSM brought: just take your SIM and move it to a different phone. No permission required. Arguably we've become slaves to ecosystems of either Apple or Google at this point, as pretty much nobody uses a phone as "just a phone", you need to have an account wi…

> Arguably we've become slaves to ecosystems of either Apple or Google at this point I’m far more worried about the SIM cards than Apple or Google. Did you know that SIM cards run Java? Or that they can send text messages from your phone directly to the baseband without going through the phone itself? Your SIM is probably sending data to your carrier without you knowing. ( https://scribe.rip/telecom-expert/what-is-at…

> Get rid of SIM cards and let’s move everything to purely digital number porting. That doesn’t mean you can’t add or change your provider when you travel, it just means you do it through the user interface instead of removing a little card that runs Java and has access to your baseband.

Here a different perceptive on this.

SIM: Great! my phone just broke and I need to call my insurance to get it replaced. Oh lucky I saved my older phone! That is so perfect because I can take the SIM from my primary phone and put it in the older phone. viola it works! all of that take within 5 mins.

Without SIM: Great! my phone just broke and I need to call my insurance to get it replaced. Oh lucky I still have my older phone... oh wait, they don't have a SIM. So I am stuck without my phone for a week and need to have access to my phone now! Wait let me see if I can open my older phone and see what I can do. turns on yay it still works... no cellular signal? Oh right right, I forgot this phone don't have SIM. Oh ok I guess I have to go through the internal app to get it over to this phone. Why this app kept failing?! C'mon I just need my phone to work because I am expecting calls for potential future job that I might get it! two weeks later with new phone at the door Great... I didn't get the job because the mobile company and insurance been dragging this long as possible. All of this might take two weeks.

This is why people favors SIM because it can be taken out and put in other phone within minutes. In other side, people will be stuck without phone for a while because of this stupidity.