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Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

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Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#311

Post by kube-system »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #139
TacticalCoder wrote: post #27

We really need a terminology to differentiate better between pedal-assist only e-bikes ("pedelec") and electric motorbikes. A "bicycle" that can accelerate without the need to pedal at all is an electric motorcycle, no matter if you put pedal on it or not. I see the two as totally different things: I've tried pedal-assist e-bike and they're great. But... Although I have nothing against motorbikes I'm not cool at all…

> A "bicycle" that can accelerate without the need to pedal at all is an electric motorcycle, no matter if you put pedal on it or not. That sounds very American. Don’t we have Vespa scooters and mopeds in the USA as well? There are plenty of bike formats between bicycle and motorbikes. In China most e-bikes aren’t pedal assists and no one would ever claim they were car road worthy vehicles, they got bike lanes or the…

Vespa style scooters are motorcycles in many US states, but there are exceptions.

Mopeds with engines under 50cc and that have pedals are often treated differently than motorcycles but some states still require licensing and registration similar to a motorcycle.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#312

Post by pcwalton »

Steltek wrote: post #192
jacquesm wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not in the US.

I don't think you need to defend yourself so vigorously in this thread. But I would say that what you're seeing is distinctly the American experience with e-bikes and bike enforcement. Americans are generally clueless about e-bike laws. This includes police and e-bike owners. American e-bikes are marketed as having throttles, being to bypass traffic at high speeds using the bike lanes and bike paths, and not needing…

I don't think it's helpful for us cyclists to be turning against each other. We ought to be unified in advocating for better bike infrastructure. (Personally, I use an electric bike because I'm still recovering from a broken ankle and don't want to strain it.)

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#313

Post by space_fountain »

aaomidi wrote: post #161
space_fountain wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think something like average real world speed and weight are the two important metrics. Maybe this is the intuition with petal assist vs throttle controlled e-bikes. I do sort of think it should take some work to get a bike up to it's top speed so that riders don't just cruise at that speed.

> so that riders don't just cruise at that speed. Do you actually ride bikes on roads? This is there because if you're going slow on an actual road you're more likely to get killed because of a car hitting you. I'm honestly exhausted at this FUD when it's actively fucking with my life as a bike rider on a main road. Even Netherlands allows fully motorized vehicles that are small on their bike paths. Stop thinking of…

I didn't mean to cause quite as much of a controversy as it seems I have. I do actually ride a standard, non e-bike on SF streets, admittedly only somewhat timidly and in places with low speed limits and or good bike infrastructure. It just strikes me that if you want a machine with a throttle, and that can operate at road speeds we have that. It's a moped. If you want something that can operate in close quarters on shared paths with humans we also have that, but it is scary and potentially dangerous being overtaken at speed on a shared path by a heavy machine with wide tires traveling at speed when you're walking on a path.

What both riders and pedestrians need is better car free infrastructure so we can stop it with the biking means going fast business. An ebike capped at something like the top speed of a human is a very different beast than a normal bike even if their top speeds are the same because the ebike is much more likely to actually be at those speeds at any point in time.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#314

Post by Tostino »

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #191
yellow_postit wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a cargo bike carrying children in a hilly area the throttle is nearly essentially to safely get going from a stop and then to have pedaling take over.

I don't understand this comment. There are tons of non e cargo bikes. Are you saying they're unsafe to use? You could simply walk the bike if the terrain is too steep.

It can be much harder to ride those cargo bikes by pedaling and throwing your center of balance around when weighed down compared to allowing the motor to accelerate you while keeping the bike properly balanced.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#315

Post by DoreenMichele »

mikestew wrote: post #107
davidw wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not cool at all with basically motorbikes getting a free pass because they're disguised as bicycles. As long as they'r not causing problems for other cyclists, they're still a big win in terms of transportation: way less carbon usage and occupies less space.

As long as they'r not causing problems for other cyclists And if a frog had wings, it wouldn't bump its ass when it hops. "Other cyclists"? They're not cyclists, they're motorcycle riders, for starters. Now any jackass can zoom down the bike path at 25-30mph, but yeah, as long as that doesn't cause problems...

Details like that certainly need to be worked out but such criticisms are usually made in a way that ignores the bigger picture.

Internal combustion engines contribute substantially to pollution and human-caused climate change. Motor vehicle accidents maim and kill lots of people every year yet fans of that form of transportation hand wave it off as irrelevant.

We don't have to speed blindly into the future on our current vector. We can change course. It will take work and creative solutions.

Not to say such concerns shouldn't be brought up but they shouldn't be brought up in a manner that sounds entirely dismissive of a new solution with a lot of promise. Ideally, it gets brought up in a more constructive fashion overall that is more conducive to meaningful engagement and less prone to simply making people mad or defensive.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#316

Post by uoaei »

amluto wrote: post #278
fragmede wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And scooters, electric-scooters, and sit-down electric scooters. And electric wheelchairs, and non-electric wheelchairs and mobility assist carts with handlebars. We also have to delineate between a daydreaming cyclist who's top speed is slow, and a hard-core cyclist with a $3000+ bike that can hit 40 mph in the right conditions. Those cyclists should be banned from using the same paths as the first kind of bicyclist…

> We also have to delineate between a daydreaming cyclist who's top speed is slow, and a hard-core cyclist with a $3000+ bike that can hit 40 mph in the right conditions. Surely even skilled cyclists should be permitted to use bike paths as long as they don’t tear by everyone at 40 mph. And I’m genuinely a bit unclear as to why no-pedaling-needed bikes shouldn’t be able to mingle with bikes as long as they follow the…

I see it as a sort of amateurization/tragedy-of-the-commons that increases the likelihood of injuries.

As a parallel example, from what I can tell, injuries on electric rental scooters haven't really dropped too much, they just stopped being news.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#318

Post by Dylan16807 »

jacquesm wrote: post #76
Tostino wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your views are colored by the laws you have dealt with, as are mine. Just because that is the law near you doesn't automatically mean that is the ideal way of regulating society. It is just what you are used to.

Obviously, I am arguing from the position of legality where I live, that would seem logical (as the writer of the article). If you live somewhere else and have a different legal environment I'd be very interested to learn about it but I won't adapt my behavior based on that because it simply doesn't apply here.

They're not asking you to change behavior. The claim was that forcing people to pedal is gatekeeping without an actual reason, which is separate from legal arguments, and saying "the reason is the law" is missing the point/circular.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#319

Post by whiteboardr »

spamizbad wrote: post #300
fragmede wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And scooters, electric-scooters, and sit-down electric scooters. And electric wheelchairs, and non-electric wheelchairs and mobility assist carts with handlebars. We also have to delineate between a daydreaming cyclist who's top speed is slow, and a hard-core cyclist with a $3000+ bike that can hit 40 mph in the right conditions. Those cyclists should be banned from using the same paths as the first kind of bicyclist…

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but even a The only difference is the experienced, lycra-clad cyclists with expensive bikes just get up to speed faster, maybe with less of a tailwind or downward grade. However, unlike their speedy novice kin, they (should, in theory) have better bike handling skills. Overall, I think a strategy of banning with people the highest cycling skills from bike paths seems like a bad ide…

I think there is a big difference in physically working towards the speeds you mention and just rotating a grip to move (fast).

Having to work for high speeds, even if just rolling down a long hill on a “bare” machine, regardless of material or price, will create a much deeper mental involvement of what you got yourself into.

Thus, unassisted cyclists are (my guess and own experience) much more aware of their surroundings, what lies ahead and thus alert.

Things obviously can go wrong either way…

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#320

Post by [deleted] »

pcwalton wrote: post #312
Steltek wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you need to defend yourself so vigorously in this thread. But I would say that what you're seeing is distinctly the American experience with e-bikes and bike enforcement. Americans are generally clueless about e-bike laws. This includes police and e-bike owners. American e-bikes are marketed as having throttles, being to bypass traffic at high speeds using the bike lanes and bike paths, and not needing…

I don't think it's helpful for us cyclists to be turning against each other. We ought to be unified in advocating for better bike infrastructure. (Personally, I use an electric bike because I'm still recovering from a broken ankle and don't want to strain it.)

[deleted]
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