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Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

reuters.com

311–320 of 379 posts

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

did you read the article? that is not related to the tesla issue at all. Furthermore, this article just described bad decision making with regards to traffic cones, however was not dangerous. It was aware of drivable surfaces and direction of traffic... because it has a map Do you see how these are different situations? 1. Telsa swerving into an oncoming lane 2. Waymo coming to a controlled stop in front of a traffic…

> Waymo coming to a controlled stop in front of a traffic cone And then driving off again, and then blocking traffic, and then evading Waymo's roadside assistance, etc. Do you see how these aren't different situations?

again, nothing high danger. That is not a neural net, it could have easily been programmed to not try and maneuver around and just stay stopped, so sounds like a behavior that needs some additional improvement. It didn't lose sight of the cones. It was an issue with generating an appropriate path around the cones. Notice how it didn't hit the cones or anything else

That is fundamentally different than trusting a neural net to tell you where the lanes are, where the objects are, and what kind of objects they are.

you do not drive into an oncoming lane if you have a hd map. you do not drive into a concrete wall if you have lidar.

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#312
post #252

>removing radar sensors to transition to a camera-based Autopilot system A few weeks back, I had a terrible experience while using auto pilot. I was driving on a highway (in CA) with autopilot engaged. For the most part, there was a concrete median on the highway. Suddenly, a section came with no concrete median and a new left only turn lane gets added. For whatever reasons, autopilot thought it is a great idea to su…

> I haven't engaged autopilot since then. I can't trust auto pilot anymore- it couldn't deal with a dead-simple scenario of a clearly marked lane getting added. I have a question about Tesla Autopilot. Looking at the common driver assistance features that are common nowadays even on many entry level models from most car companies, I see adaptive cruise control (often with low speed following), warnings if you start t…

Absolutely. All the features you mentioned are standard and work independently of Autopilot [0]

It probably has the best and most intuitive lane keeping, adaptive cruise control, blind spot alerts, collision detection warnings, etc. out there (at least from the cars I've driven). For example, other intelligent cruise control systems I've used will rigidly and aggressively maintain a fixed distance from the car in front of you, like a robot--with only 3 options: awful tail gating, kind of acceptable, and piss everyone else off as you stay a mile away.

Whereas Telsa's have some 8 levels of distance options--easily adjustable by pushing the right steering wheel button left or right, which shows a visual indicator on the screen. And more importantly, it isn't some rigid algorithm that will "always maintain 8 car lengths", instead its behavior is based on current conditions.

Autopilot is a fantastic driver-assist tool, and makes driving so much more enjoyable and less stressful. Part of the problem is that even technically inclined people, as witnessed here, have trouble with the distinction between "Full Self Driving", and "Autopilot". Autopilot is basically cruise control with steering. If you wouldn't use cruise control normally, certainly don't use Autopilot. And when using it, keep your hands on the wheel, and be prepared to take control immediately, just like it says--especially whenever there's an upcoming change to road conditions (e.g. a new lane appears, an intersection, a merger, etc).

It's also really easy to take control if it starts to veer into, say, another lane that appears. When I first got a Model Y in January, there were a couple places on my daily drive where it'd tend to rather aggressively steer into an an emerging turn lane with poor/non-existent markings. However, it would ultimately make the right decision, even if it was a little unnerving.

But with the latest software updates, those edge cases have been addressed; at most, it'll gently and momentarily steer in that direction, and then gracefully correct to maintain its previous heading (as you'd expect).

Autopilot doesn't have a detailed understanding of the road path, stop signs, intersections, etc. It's literally just using onboard sensors to figure out its surroundings.

Full Self Driving is a totally different animal.

And I think everyone would agree that Telsa has done a rather poor job communicating these distinctions and limitations.

[0] https://www.tesla.com/support/autopilot

[1] https://cleantechnica.com/2021/04/18/tesla-autopilot-is-just...

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#313
post #55

The irritating thing is it's all so unnecessary. My Tesla is a great car. But I paid an extra $10,000 for a feature that was promised but still hasn't been fully delivered, FSD. It feels like I paid extra for my awesome car to be sabotaged. What was promised by FSD was never going to be possible, and yet they are doubling down. They need to stop this idiocy. The vision system is horrible. The car stops at green light…

If you paid 10k, that means you bought your car in the past year or so. I've been following Tesla for a while now and FSD has been around the corner since 2016 or so. Maybe sooner. I love my model S but I'd recommend that you not delude yourself with FSD. It will bring nothing but frustration. On the other hand, regular AP does a fantastic job and I use it daily.

Yes, I can't imagine spending $10k on the promise of some half-baked FSD--especially when regular Autopilot is a reality today, and it's freaking fantastic. I, too, use it daily.

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#314
post #55

The irritating thing is it's all so unnecessary. My Tesla is a great car. But I paid an extra $10,000 for a feature that was promised but still hasn't been fully delivered, FSD. It feels like I paid extra for my awesome car to be sabotaged. What was promised by FSD was never going to be possible, and yet they are doubling down. They need to stop this idiocy. The vision system is horrible. The car stops at green light…

If you paid 10k, that means you bought your car in the past year or so. I've been following Tesla for a while now and FSD has been around the corner since 2016 or so. Maybe sooner. I love my model S but I'd recommend that you not delude yourself with FSD. It will bring nothing but frustration. On the other hand, regular AP does a fantastic job and I use it daily.

[deleted]

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you paid 10k, that means you bought your car in the past year or so. I've been following Tesla for a while now and FSD has been around the corner since 2016 or so. Maybe sooner. I love my model S but I'd recommend that you not delude yourself with FSD. It will bring nothing but frustration. On the other hand, regular AP does a fantastic job and I use it daily.

Yes, I can't imagine spending $10k on the promise of some half-baked FSD--especially when regular Autopilot is a reality today, and it's freaking fantastic. I, too, use it daily.

Yeah, I don't understand the allure of point a to point b self-driving. All I need autopilot to do is to keep me in the lanes on long tiribg drives or in traffic when it's mind numbing.

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are in severe danger of being disrupted by the very automakers they took on. The worst part is they’re nowhere near: the effective strength of Tesla is that they built a large and reliable network of fast chargers. I don’t know how non-Tesla charging is in the US, but in Europe it’s still a complete mess of half-assed crap, meaning if you don’t have a Tesla you either simply can’t make trips beyond a single-ch…

> meaning if you don’t have a Tesla you either simply can’t make trips beyond a single-charge round-trips You’re overestimating how many people make road trips > 200 miles. Most Americans never leave their hometown, with an even higher percentage who never left their state. For the middle class family who drives to visit grandma once a year in a different state, they’ll just use their ICE car.

Or rent an ICE car, that's always going to be an option.

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#317
post #137
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More people need to see your comment because there seems to be a belief that full self driving is just around the corner. However, IMO, it will never happen because it needs a full artificial general intelligence. In your case, the new lane was clearly marked, which just shows how weak the system really is. Imagine if there was snow covering the lane markings. Or sunlight reflecting off of the road confuses the visio…

There's also the very common argument (even here on HN) that it doesn't matter because "humans have plenty of accidents too". I think it's not a good rebuttal because self-driving cars will have to be orders of magnitude safer than humans if order to be successful. If I'm drunk and I decide to drive and I end up crashing into a pedestrian, then it's my own damn fault and I'll face the consequences. If a self-driving…

For me 10% safer is enough when I pick between Uber or self driving. The truth is though that we're stull far from that treshold.

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#318
post #5

With a feature being pulled from already-sold vehicles, I wonder if this'll run into some Lemon Law issues. Because the vehicle no longer does what was sold, which is specifically protected by law in many states.

You have to agree to it before you take delivery of the vehicle. You can cancel it if you don't like this issue. (I know because I am in this situation.)

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#319
post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've already seen several instances of Waymo's approach not working. I agree that ultimately they need a significant amount of local training data. But I believe they would be better off having a human drive a car around to map things out, run their 'AI' on the results, and then manually review/correct lower confidence results. Or, better yet, make a database and have cities provide feeds of changes/permits/closures…

> Or, better yet, make a database and have cities provide feeds of changes/permits/closures. "Sorry, I know you crashed, your car's on fire, and you're bleeding out. But I need to get this road closure form submitted before I can help, or a self driving car might ignore the stationary accident and make things worse. Ugh, 5G's not working today... hold on..." The cars must be able to handle random, unexpected events h…

If both are 98%, and you combine them...

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've already seen several instances of Waymo's approach not working. I agree that ultimately they need a significant amount of local training data. But I believe they would be better off having a human drive a car around to map things out, run their 'AI' on the results, and then manually review/correct lower confidence results. Or, better yet, make a database and have cities provide feeds of changes/permits/closures…

> We've already seen several instances of Waymo's approach not working. Define - 1. Several. 2. Not working. Disc: Googler but I don't know if that's necessary since I don't work at Waymo.

Here's one: https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/14/22436584/waymo-driverless...
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