NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur • Hacker News Board

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#311

Post by Udik » Tue, Feb 09, 2021, 1:57 PM UTC

throwaway802011 wrote: post #309

parsimo2010 wrote: post #156

Some thoughts on the bigger picture- 1: Really? Do you have to write "r-word" instead of "retard" when you're writing about someone saying something? What if Marc literally said "r-word" and I'm vastly underestimating how woke this reporter is? Wait, I have a solution. Use the actual word that a person said when quoting them. Just write the exact sentence where you think Marc said the word retard. Nobody should prose…

> Really? Do you have to write "r-word" instead of "retard" when you're writing about someone saying something? By the standards of the New York Times, yes. They parted with a journalist in the past week for making this error with the n-word: > “We do not tolerate racist language regardless of intent," Baquet and Managing Editor Joseph Kahn wrote to staffers Friday. > [...] > [The Times] also shared a note from McNei…

I find all this genuinely r-worded.

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#312

Post by prepend » Tue, Feb 09, 2021, 2:01 PM UTC

parsimo2010 wrote: post #156

Some thoughts on the bigger picture- 1: Really? Do you have to write "r-word" instead of "retard" when you're writing about someone saying something? What if Marc literally said "r-word" and I'm vastly underestimating how woke this reporter is? Wait, I have a solution. Use the actual word that a person said when quoting them. Just write the exact sentence where you think Marc said the word retard. Nobody should prose…

I think “r-word” is a function of stupid text analysis that scans for offensive words. So the fear is that, at some point in the near future, I’ll end up on some stupid regex/nlp-generated list of bigots because it has 100,000 names of people who match the query.

Then people freak out and say the equivalent of “look 95,000 people are terrible and the algorithm can’t be wrong” etc etc.

This is the equivalent of juries and police trusting bad facial recognition code and making my life miserable. While it’s certainly lazy, it’s the path of least resistance to avoid the word.

I believe that there are way more knee jerk, judging idiots than there are people who can code high positive predictive value bigot scanners.

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#313

Post by throwaway20875 » Tue, Feb 09, 2021, 2:33 PM UTC

NearAP wrote: post #298

throwaway20875 wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The argument was never about whether a story like that was news worthy or not. That's an interesting take. Articles and mentions were suppressed near IMMEDIATELY on Facebook and Twitter followed by waves of accounts bannings. Mandarins of the US security apparatus (some of which who draw compensation from media companies) were waltzed out to claim it was Russian disinformation (lol).

That is false. The suppression on Twitter was based on the argument that the data was allegedly hacked, was not verified and they were being cautious. You are also ignoring the fact that even conservative leanings sites like Wall Street journal passed on the story. Finally, Greenwald published his resignation letter. Intercept also published their letter to him. It was never about news worthiness. It was a debate on…

>That is false. The suppression on Twitter was based on the argument that the data was allegedly hacked, was not verified and they were being cautious. You are also ignoring the fact that even conservative leanings sites like Wall Street journal passed on the story.

So the "Collateral Murder" video, by that standard, would be suppressed too? And any mentions of it, even in private messages, would also be suppressed?

And then comes the double standards - "allegedly hacked" - Trump's tax returns and his wife's phone conversations were published and not suppressed shortly before the story on HB broke. And to be clear, because I'm sure your programmed knee-jerk reaction here will be to default to team politics, Trump's tax returns absolutely deserved to be published.

Whatever your stripe of politics, you're eventually (and painfully) going to realize that you're being systematically fed a wave of lies. WMDs (no one jailed), GFC (no recovery, no one jailed), Guantanamo (still open), drone strikes in 75+ countries (still going), NSA spying (still going), Snowden (still innocent, still a political refugee), Epstein (didn't kill himself). Crickets from the media, zero accountability. Wake up.

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#314

Post by tootie » Tue, Feb 09, 2021, 2:36 PM UTC

throwaway894345 wrote: post #285

tootie wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She had a Clubhouse invite and reported on what (she thought) she heard. That's not surveillance any more than watching TV is surveillance. Would Greenwald appreciate his methods being referred to as KGB-like espionage? Because working a source to reveal classified material is how they would do it. And it's seriously rich of him to accuse another journalist of pursuing an agenda.

I think you misunderstand what citizen surveillance refers to. It’s not literal espionage.

Neither is listening in on Clubhouse. That convo was invite-only, but not private. And to my other point, what about Donald Sterling? He had a one-on-one private phone call leaked by his mistress that resulted in him being banned for life from the NBA for expressing his personal opinions. Consider that the apotheosis of "Cancel Culture". Now ask yourself if, knowing what we know about his true feelings, if we should respect his privacy and not complain about him owning an NBA franchise. Or if he is the true victim here. Or if it's just irrelevant that he's a billionaire and owned a fan-supported sports team.

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#315

Post by tootie » Tue, Feb 09, 2021, 2:38 PM UTC

throwaway894345 wrote: post #243

tootie wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how this rates as abhorrent.

I thought it sufficed to say that overt defamation is abhorrent, at least when one is a journalist at the newspaper of record.

Defamation implies intent.

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#316

Post by acct776 » Tue, Feb 09, 2021, 2:38 PM UTC

whakim wrote: post #138

ryanSrich wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of substance, journalists should have enough integrity to not title an article "Are Private Messaging Apps the Next Misinformation Hot Spot?". "Misinformation" is among the list of grossly overused words in online discourse. It has no meaning, other than to exist as the boogyman. "Hot Spot". Another sensationalist phrase used to scare readers into thinking anyone that even slightly disagrees with their poi…

At most news orgs the reporters aren't the ones writing the article titles. I agree that the headline is alarmist, but it's probably just written to be clickbait-y, as far too many headlines now are. I disagree that "articles like this are written specifically to inadvertently call for the censorship of more voices." The article takes on a subject that has been discussed a lot recently, and, on balance, probably push…

> The article takes on a subject that has been discussed a lot recently

Mostly by other navel-gazing publications echoing the same fearmongering.

This is how consent is manufactured.

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#317

Post by eitland » Tue, Feb 09, 2021, 2:42 PM UTC

Camillo wrote: post #223

eitland wrote: post #6

>the Times’ tech team quickly donned their hall-monitor goggles and Stasi notebooks to warn that the Bad People had migrated to Signal and Telegram. This week they asked: “Are Private Messaging Apps the Next Misinformation Hot Spot?” One reporter “confess[ed] that I am worried about Telegram. Other than private messaging, people love to use Telegram for group chats — up to 200,000 people can meet inside a Telegram ch…

> Do it if $5 is pocket money for you. If not for this then for something else he have done. But what if in a few years Greenwald falls (further) from grace and you find yourself in hot water for having financed him? Better use a prepaid card.

At some point one has to stand up for something.

Everyone else should of course feel free to use a prepaid card.

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#318

Post by Person5478 » Tue, Feb 09, 2021, 3:00 PM UTC

mint2 wrote: post #295

Person5478 wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the idea is that a slur is a much stronger insult typically aimed at one's ethnicity. What's being said here is that the word retard is an insult, but does not rise to the level/strength of a slur.

Wait I’m misunderstand you, right? Reading your comment it almost seems like yours saying that the r word isn’t a slur or isn’t that bad of one?! It’s a word that takes a whole class of people and uses them as an insult when talking about other people. Are you seriously going to try to pull some narrow technical originalist definition to argue that in this specific edition of this specific dictionary it defines “slur…

Under your definition the word cripple would also be a slur.

When we get to that point, we've lost the forest for the trees.

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#319

Post by ThrowawayR2 » Tue, Feb 09, 2021, 3:04 PM UTC

call_me_dana wrote: post #203

dogman144 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

God I'm pretty lefty but "problematic" is becoming... problematic. On top of that, just completely asinine tech reporting is becoming problematic. Bloomberg supermicro? Never retracted, lead reporter on it is now BBG's cyber reporting czar. NYT's NSA hacked Baltimore author? Came out with that smooth brained "Jetbrains == SolarWinds" story. The wear and tear from a complex field only getting more complex, it governin…

When we see the rise of citizen journalism and independent media. Mainstream media is completely biased and not trustable. Matt Taibbi keeps stressing the need for a unbiased news site but if it has corporate backing, it will eventually become compromised.

> "the rise of citizen journalism"

The only citizens who will be able to expend the time and resources to do more than superficial reporting will either have a Paul Bunyan-sized axe to grind or be funded by someone else. In neither case will they be unbiased.

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#320

Post by okprod » Tue, Feb 09, 2021, 3:16 PM UTC

Interning at Fairness & Accuracy In Reporting in my youth was worthwhile. Mis/disinformation, mass media, and the power/biases of tech corporations to manipulate is a problem. But this case isn't "journalism" anymore than tabloid garbage. I also expected more from a Berkman Klein affiliate.