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Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

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Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#311
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your point is meaningless in face of the law, and that is what all anti-Apple champions will get with this lawsuit.

They aren't suing Apple for being a monopoly, they're suing Apple for violating the Sherman Act. https://twitter.com/EskilSteenberg/status/129752027579013939...

Which they clearly haven’t violated, by any historical or legal measure. But we will see.

And also, it’s up to the DOJ to litigate this, not competitors. They don’t have the standing.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#312
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some definition of "app business", sure. But there are plenty of companies making plenty of money in software without touching any app store. To be sure, Apple's popularity puts them in a really good negotiating position with respect to developers who want to sell certain kinds of software.

Agreed. But, for the sake of those app businesses that fit the right definition, we should allow for a choice of sideloading or competing app stores. And no harm would come to consumers by giving them that choice.

My argument is that some harm does befall at least some consumers. You might judge that harm worth the other tradeoffs, but it’s not zero.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#313
post #276

A victory for sanity. Apple threatening developmental licenses and anyone who used the Unreal Engine was nothing short of mafia-esque, and just as obviously Fortnite being restored to the app store is a matter for Epic's lawsuit against apple.

Now if only the courts would apply the same "sanity" to, say, Uber threatening to fire all its drivers if they're subject to regulation. Not just in california, it's been a repeated thing, they used their employees as leverage when they were threatening to take their ball and go home if Dallas made them do background checks too. The sad part is that Epic's tactics are nothing out of the ordinary for these silicon val…

And now because of the laws making freelance harder, truck drivers who want to stay freelance are having to move out of California and some writers who are doing freelance writing are also finding it difficult.

Companies shouldn’t be in the position of offering “benefits” to employees. No sane first world company ties health insurance to your employer.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly is sane about figuring out how to make 200,000 contractors full-time employees inside of a week? I don't think there's a company in the world that could pull that off. If a company says, "hey, we're a marketplace" and a court says, "actually, you're not" then the company has to figure out how to adapt. There's change and an emotional toll to the drivers in that scenario whether they become employees or n…

> inside of a week California Assembly Bill 5 was signed into law last September and was clearly a "Going to Happen" event for at least a year prior. There's no surprise here. Uber had plenty of time to figure out how to deal with this. And they did: they aren't dummies, this was their plan. Their considered decision was that it was in the best interests of their shareholders to play brinksmanship games with their em…

It’s no game. Uber didn’t like the rules of the state - it’s leaving the state. That’s a perfectly logical thing to do.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#315
post #32

Could someone explain what was Apple trying to do? I really don't get their position in this story. It seemed obvious that trying to completely block Epic's Unreal Engine would be causing more legal issues. What is their strategy here? It feels that they actually wanted things to escalate, though I cannot see why they would do this.

I think Apple thinks they're going to lose, so they tried to apply as much pressure as possible to get Epic to settle prematurely. I can't see why else they would have done it, it just strengthens Epic's case.

I think you may be misunderstanding the fundamentals of the case.

This was a moonshot by Epic, mostly about the court of public opinion than the actual law.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and for every dev that left you'd have a shady one step in the fill the void.

You mean like all of the shady developers who are already in the App Store selling in app purchases for loot boxes, useless virtual currency and play to win games? I’m surprised (not really) that people are defending Epic but would never defend King (Candy Crush) or the makers of FarmVille. I would much rather see BaseCamp (Hey) or the company that was selling virtual workouts with real trainers take them to court. I…

> I would much rather see BaseCamp (Hey) or the company that was selling virtual workouts with real trainers take them to court.

I wouldn’t, because they’d be crushed. I’d rather that if someone takes Apple to court, it’s someone with the resources to make a dent.

> I’m surprised (not really) that people are defending Epic but would never defend King (Candy Crush) or the makers of FarmVille.

Even if you think they’re equivalent, the difference is the former is taking an action that—even if for selfish reasons—can have a positive impact on independent developers.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#317
post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even though that's kinda sad, I don't expect to see any (relevant, mass-market, used by the general public) truly open alternative in the foreseeable future. The market just doesn't seem to be there for it. On PCs, already pretty much no one uses Linux outside of tech bubbles (and even there, seems like it's behind both Windows and macOS [0]), apparently somewhere around 1-2% [1] among the general population; in prac…

It would be a challenge to gain a foothold for sure. I suspect the way in would be to have a way to support Android apps (I believe windows phone was doing this for a while?) As far as malware, I’m not sure why it would be more of an issue on an open platform than it would on Android. I use Linux as a daily driver, and as long as you’re getting software from trusted sources, it’s not much of a concern. I don’t see wh…

> As far as malware, I’m not sure why it would be more of an issue on an open platform than it would on Android.

> I use Linux as a daily driver, and as long as you’re getting software from trusted sources, it’s not much of a concern. I don’t see why it would be different on mobile.

Not sure if that's true – doesn't Google keep the Play store mostly free of serious malware? Apart from stunts like sideloading Fortnite, I'd expect the vast majority of Android users to get all their apps from the Play Store, so that should be reasonably safe. Of course, Google can pretty much force everyone into the Play Store by denying access to Play services and their huge customer base if you don't, so it's a one-stop shop for next to everyone.

But if every company, publisher, developer may host their own, including their own OpenPlay Services, how do you tell what is a trustworthy source? How do you tell if OpenRando Store is trustworthy when a Google search tells you it has this TokTuk app you've heard of? This isn't like server Linux, where most people are reasonably careful with what they install, sources are relatively few and policed well, and people tend to be at least somewhat knowledgeable, so tricking them is quite hard; this also isn't like desktop Linux, which doesn't have market share. This would be a reasonably large mobile platform used by everyone and their grandma to run a large part of their lives.

I'm quite sure most people wouldn't want to have to have a thorough understanding of how apps, app stores, installs, updates, the OS, typical malware, scams etc. work, just so they have a chance at noticing when things are off in some way. I've next to no idea how iOS works, and that's fine with me, and I'm someone who runs Kubernetes clusters for fun. Whoever spares people from having to have that knowledge and do that work and actively manage their phone like a piece of complicated corporate IT equipment will get all the users; they'd get me, for sure. My phone really just has to work and be secure.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#318
post #175
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

20% global market share isn't a monopoly.

How many stores are allowed on Apple's ecosystem?

What part of the law forces companies to sell things they don’t want to? Or to force the creation of a retail marketplace on their own ecosystem?

It will likely require a new legislation to force the regulation of App Stores as public utilities.

Violating the Sherman act requires demonstration of monopoly or restraint of trade. Any ISV has many channels and platforms with which to sell its wares, so this will be hard to prove. Asking for a retail cut % isn’t restraint of trade.

The ISVs like Epic want more profit for themselves by forcing the regulation of app stores as public utilities, so that like a power generation company, they can compete separately from the distribution system. That is a tall order to prove that it’s more in the public interest than in the ISV’s interest.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#319
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not see a nightmare, that is the thing - why do you see one? What you describe is possible with multiple app stores and allowing 3rd party apps - you just do not use those other stores and apps. Nobody is forcing you to use a 3rd party app store, but Apple is forcing everyone to go through their store. You can keep your tightly controlled experience by not using anything else than Apple - but that doesn't mean e…

> Nobody is forcing you to use a 3rd party app store, but Apple is forcing everyone to go through their store. Many employers do that very thing. How many people have been compelled by employment circumstances to install Zoom despite its dubious pedigree? What happens when a corporate timecard app exists only in a 3rd party app store?

Zoom works on the web and when I did install the app, I installed it on my iPad. I wouldn’t let Zoom go anywhere near my computer.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two points- (1) Presumably Apple wanted to try to send a very quick message to others to not try to make similar moves (and to reassure other developers that Epic wasn't getting a special deal) instead of waiting 30 days. (2) I've said this before and it's important to understand this: just because a contract says Apple can do something (terminate the contract with Unreal Engine), that does not mean they can do it. I…

Per item 1, now would be a good time for every single developer on the app store to revolt in unison. Collective bargaining.

I did my part. I haven't had my stuff on the app store for years!

Although I was working on a small Swift game to refresh my mobile app dev skills, but it's on the backburner right now anyway.

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