Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Why not let the market decide? Because we're not monsters.
What does that even mean? We're monsters for giving people choice?
What does "let the market decide" mean except let the poor be at the mercy of the rich?
Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay
311–320 of 688 posts
Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay
#312Earlier quoted context omitted.
> ...Uber drivers reported earning $13.47 per hour, which means that on average, drivers report that their car is costing them over $6 per hour to operate. If you were to drive full time, that would get you about 27k/year, which is about the average income that a taxi driver makes. Rideshare companies are asking you to take more personal financial risk than you might as a taxi driver, but giving you more flexibility.…
And what does welfare pay? Serious question as I'm not in the USA and have no idea. If Welfare pays less, isn't Uber/Lyft a positive thing? And that is just the direct monetary benefit of $27K vs welfare. There are many intangible benefits to work vs welfare beyond money. Being unemployed has mental health and life satisfaction costs (summary: https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2019/04/is... ). This is…
>There is significant evidence that long term unemployment REALLY hurts someone's hiring chances when applying for a job (see https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2013/04/co.... from 2013 with linked papers).
But in the study linked, they're really testing whether a resume gap hurts your chances of getting hired. I'm skeptical that it would translate the same to gig economy job, given you can't ask them for a reference, nor is there any indication of how much you worked (did you work 40 hour weeks? a few hours a week?), or how reliable/timely you were.
Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay
#313Earlier quoted context omitted.
none of those things required technology. pre-industrial society would not have collapsed if laborers had weekends and a minimum wage
How do you know that? Because of industrial revolutions, minimum wage and stuff was even thought about and eventually implemented! Without industries that afforded that, these social policies would have totally collapsed!
Society seems to be progressing just fine with a min. wage and weekends off.
Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay
#314What really irks me about this whole thing is how Uber Eats and Door Dash is unaffected by all this. Delivery workers have almost exactly the same paradigm, but I guess they're not enforcing it, because of the number of restaurants, drivers, and eaters that will be affected?
Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay
#315Earlier quoted context omitted.
Good insight. Coming together is tricky when there is no common grounds. One side wants wealth to be fairly Evenly distributed to help the poor. The other side helps the poor by creating so much wealth that that most poor people have a lot of wealth. These days you can be considered poor and have housing, ac, heat, tv, video games, maybe a car, and weight problems because food is so cheap. This only leaves those who…
They are poor because they live on a knife's edge, one accident away from financial insolvency or lack of sufficient access to necessities like health care and education opportunities. Also having to work multiple jobs to break even. The problem isn't "inequality" it is that the floor in the US is so low compared to other wealthy nations.
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Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay
#316"Uber and Lyft say drivers prefer the flexibility of working as freelancers, while labor unions and elected officials contend this deprives them of traditional benefits like health insurance and workers’ compensation." I was curious about what drivers think. I guess they're not happy [1] but want to be independent contractors still [2]. 1. https://therideshareguy.com/uber-driver-survey/ 2. (In a May online survey dra…
>I was curious about what drivers think. I guess they're not happy [1] but want to be independent contractors still [2]. If the employers don't want the change... and the employees don't want the change... and the customers don't want the change... and the shareholders don't want the change... and the residents of California don't want the change (exhibited by the threads yesterday with outcry over the decision to sh…
>and the residents of California don't want the change (exhibited by the threads yesterday with outcry over the decision to shut down)...
but didn't they also vote in favor of AB5? I'd take a referendum result over a non-uniform sampling of people's opinions.
edit: nevermind. AB5 wasn't a referendum, so citizens actually didn't get to vote on it.
Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay
#317Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's lots of ways to lie with surveys, I wonder what the exact wording was and what the responses would be to variants such as: 1. Do you want to be CEO of your own company or a peon employee? 2. Do you want uber to set your hours? 3. Do you want medical, vacation days, or unemployment insurance? For some people these are all basically the same questions. For most folks, I don't think they are.
Very curious about this trend I've seen on HN where instead of going to the primary source, commenters will take 2x the time to hypothesize about what the primary source could contain. In this particular case it was so easy that it really makes me wonder. I can think of a couple of reasons: * Uncertainty with where in the primary source the content is * Concern that you're being Gish Galloped with citations * Lack of…
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Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay
#318Completely anecdotal but I bring this question up every time I drive in an Uber and overwhelmingly the drivers tell me they want to stay independent. No one is forcing drivers into their jobs. I really struggle to understand why we need bureaucrats imposing their idea of what a market should look like on an fairly efficient market. From my experience the drivers are perfectly aware of the costs that go into driving s…
> overwhelmingly the drivers tell me they want to stay independent. However, I overwhelmingly don't want to pay for their healthcare or food stamps because they aren't earning enough money. I personally think that AB5 doesn't go far enough. If you employ people for more than 40 hours, you should owe healthcare and benefits, period . It doesn't matter whether those 40 hours are one person or 10 people or whether the p…
But not allowing those people to work with uber would just make them... even more dependant on the state? Either:
1) They are driving because it's the best opportunity available for them, and losing that possibility would force them to work less desirable/paying jobs, have less disposable income if uber is just a side gig for them or just end up unemployed. Which would lead to them contributing even less to their healthcare/education/etc costs.
Or
2) You are assuming that they are driving even if they can get 40h jobs with good benefits but just choose... not to? Or that if uber inevitably ends up closing their California operations, they will magically find those cushier jobs & those who drive to add to their income will just find an extremely flexible side gig that can net them hundreds of dollars a month?
I don't understand how unemployment is a more desirable outcome. Because uber will absolutely not pay for each of their driver's benefits. And that's even if they were able to afford it (they absolutely can't).
Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay
#319Earlier quoted context omitted.
What does the alternative look like? A contract for 10 rides? A contract for one week at a time? What if the driver wants to serve one ride, and then never again: what contract models allow that single ride to fulfill a "contract"?
Contracts can be pretty arbitrary. "Independent contractor -- except can't turn down a ride."
Great, next time I take a consulting gig I'll be sure to turn down the jira tickets I don't want to do.
Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay
#320Earlier quoted context omitted.
They want to stay independent, fine. Then actually treat them like independent contractors. Let them set rates. Let them decline rides without facing penalties by the platform. Make the changes necessary to fit the independent contractor model. And not just the rideshare company, but the state too: these workers need unemployment insurance, as Covid has shown, and somebody needs to pay for it: be it the workers or th…
Uber and Lyft already did this in California after the passage of AB5 earlier this year. That's why they now have price estimates instead of giving exact values ahead of time.
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