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Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

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Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#311

Post by Someone »

mikestew wrote: post #154
iav wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Defining Apple as a monopolist on iOS is like calling Ford a monopolist in selling radios in Ford vehicles. No one thinks it’s a violation for Ford to include their own radio (built by a 3rd party like Bose - same as an app) in a Ford truck, and offer you an expensive upgrade to that radio (say also by Olufsen - also like a better App) if you want it. No one demands that Ford allow a different vendor to sell you a co…

And if Ford says that installing a third party radio without their authorization voids your warranty or otherwise makes it impossible to do so, it’s generally accepted to be OK. Don't know where you live, but that is not true in the U. S. "It is generally accepted as" against Federal law.

Technically, I think it, unfortunately, is true that companies can say that in the USA and many other countries.

Companies can say things they know aren’t true, misleading customers. They even often can make it hard for customers who know their rights to exercise those rights.

I think it would be an improvement if such actions were punished harsher and more often.

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#312

Post by manquer »

actuator wrote: post #232

I really don't understand why people are defending Apple on this. It seems shameful of a $1.5 trillion company to do this to developers. Even more so when they themselves don't abide by their philosophy. They are extracting out a competitive advantage from this on other services like Spotify or Netflix( even without this they have a big one at app discovery and pre installs on iOS). Kudos to Google for allowing the d…

I agree on the ethos you are taking about. I personally prefer that choice, not everyone does.

You also have to understand when you buy into apple's philosophy the experience you sign up for is seamless where you don't need to worry about who controls what, that requires you to sacrifice choice ,

- I cannot choose to change my RAM or hard disk or other h/w to vendor of my choice on a MacBook,

- I cannot choose my own Desktop Environment or Kernel I boot in MacOS.

- I cannot choose how sign-in or payment is handled in Apple.

Payment handling allows them to provide the same experience to all apps for refunds or other problems etc. Is it worth the sacrifice ? depends on what you value the most.

Many people do not want or need these choices, Apple is designing products for those people, If you value your choices as I do, you should not be using Apple in the first place. I don't blame Apple for setting stringent rules to give that experience to people who are willing to pay for it.

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#313

Post by jungletime »

gamblor956 wrote: post #30

Note to the people asking why this matters: Legally, if you take a position in federal court on X (i.e., that it's okay to ban external transactions by apps using your app store), and you are found to be doing not-X in an analogous situation (i.e., setting up external transactions to avoid fees in your competitors' app store), the court can rule against you in the original case...and then sanction you and your lawyer…

"Youtube" Lawyer (Viva Frey) was making the same argument this week of such a contradiction.

Google banning Federalist from its ad network for having racist comments on its articles.

Google having plenty of racist comments on its own youtube, but still running ads on those videos.

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#314

Post by Someone »

cwhiz wrote: post #197
zachruss92 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, my stance here is that Google is pretty reasonable with their guidelines compared to Apple. My biggest issue in the iOS vs Android debate is that apple is behaving monopolistically and Google isn't. Using the respective app stores give publishers an inherent audience to distribute/sell content through. I don't think it's unreasonable for Apple/Google to try to profit off of the audience they've built. W…

Apple is a minority player in every single market in the world, including the US. You can't have monopolistic behavior without a monopoly. You can't be a monopoly if you are not the market leader. People want this to be a legal issue but it's just a market issue. If people don't like these policies they shouldn't buy Apple products or release apps on Apple devices.

I would think Apple has a monopoly either in selling iOS apps to consumers or, if you argue you don’t buy from Apple (but I don’t think that would hold under EU consumer law) in providing services to sell iOS apps to consumers.

A ruling on this might be tricky, though. It would have to argue that “iOS apps” are a separate market, that this is detrimental to consumers, and would have to phrase things in a way that there’s no collateral damage.

For example (possibly a very bad one; I’m not an expert in any law), theaters and music festivals typically sell their own tickets, passing on part of their revenues to performers. If, as is often the case, their show is unique, that might be called a ‘monopoly’ somewhat similar to what Apple does (sell iOS apps, passing on part of the revenues). They would have to find an argument as to why one thing is allowed while the other isn’t, and it can’t be “because we feel it’s different” or “because we don’t like Apple”.

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#315

Post by csharptwdec19 »

city41 wrote: post #263
6510 wrote: post #237

Cant everyone do the Netflix "trick"? Or will small players get banned for it? https://www.pcmag.com/news/netflix-doesnt-pay-apples-ios-tax...

This is the trick Basecamp tried, and Apple blocked them. It seems you can only get away with the trick if Apple views your app as also being beneficial to them.

Doubly hilarious considering they are doing the same...

Almost envisioning the meeting:

A: "Hey, how should we get around giving google a cut?" B: "..." A: "Cool. Let's go ahead and make sure we block that behavior in our system while we're at it."

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#316

Post by fastball »

HatchedLake721 wrote: post #306
actuator wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole issue is about choice. If what Apple is offering you is worth the 30% cut they ask for, you will pay it. If it is not, you should be free to use your own method and take care of the details like tax yourself. Cross platform things anyway have to solve this problem on their own.

Yes, that worked out very well in 00’s with windows mobile. /s People don’t understand the power of consumer friendly digital experience

> Cross platform things anyway have to solve this problem on their own.

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#319

Post by RonanTheGrey »

rhodysurf wrote: post #258
6510 wrote: post #237

Cant everyone do the Netflix "trick"? Or will small players get banned for it? https://www.pcmag.com/news/netflix-doesnt-pay-apples-ios-tax...

Thats what the Hey! email app tried to do and they got denied by App Review saying users must be able to use the app without paying if there is no payment option in the app.

Which is absolutely, positively, pathologically insane behavior.

Apple is a DISTRIBUTION platform, it is NOT analogous to the building where a business is housed.

They have NO RIGHT to claim 30% of a company's business. If the app is not moving money, Apple has no right to claim a piece of it.

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#320

Post by natch »

benhurmarcel wrote: post #213
natch wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a common math mistake. Wouldn't it have to be 42.857143% more expensive to make up for giving Apple a 30% cut of the total? Or is Google just throwing up its hands here? Or is their math that bad? Or maybe my math is bad, I don't know.

The Apple fee is 30% on the first payment (so 42% more expensive), but afterwards it's 15% for a continuous subscription (18% more). Averaging it to 30% and rounding doesn't seem too crazy.

>The Apple fee is 30% on the first payment (so 42% more expensive)

"so"

But that doesn't necessarily follow, unless it actually is a 42% higher number than a known reference number for the price of the same subscription service and period on another platform.

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