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Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

bloomberg.com

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Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#311

Post by brobinson »

elliekelly wrote: post #73
muro wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taleb describes this well: globalism allows for optimization (cost, efficiency), but increases risk. To reduce risk, add redundancy (locally).

In some ways it decreases risk though, too. The risk of war, specifically. The US and Chinese governments are far from friends but our economies are much too interconnected to allow either side to instigate too much of a disagreement. For the most part globalization is good but the pandemic has certainly highlighted the value of strategic redundancy or at least an emergency plan B.

This was the prevailing thought before World War 1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Illusion

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#312

Post by smacktoward »

elliekelly wrote: post #73
muro wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taleb describes this well: globalism allows for optimization (cost, efficiency), but increases risk. To reduce risk, add redundancy (locally).

In some ways it decreases risk though, too. The risk of war, specifically. The US and Chinese governments are far from friends but our economies are much too interconnected to allow either side to instigate too much of a disagreement. For the most part globalization is good but the pandemic has certainly highlighted the value of strategic redundancy or at least an emergency plan B.

The economist Norman Angell (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Angell) published a highly influential book, The Great Illusion, making this exact argument. In 1909.

It has, let’s say, not aged gracefully.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#313

Post by TeMPOraL »

enitihas wrote: post #289
TeMPOraL wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair, and I absolutely agree with that. Unfortunately, it would have to be mandated by fiat for it to happen, because market economy tends to reward people in proportion to the inverse of the value they provide to the society at large.

Market economy rewards people in proportion to what costs to replace them, so unskilled jobs get rewarded less. There is no chance in hell writing a crud app delivers more value to society than saving one single life.

> Market economy rewards people in proportion to what costs to replace them

Mostly true. I'd say true, if by "replace" you mean "replace with someone equally capable of earning business the same amount of money". In this sense, top celebrities get absurdly high payouts because they cannot be easily substituted by someone who can bring in equivalent fanbase (=money).

> so unskilled jobs get rewarded less

Not necessarily. A CRUD app often pays more than medicine, but then again sometimes plumbing or construction work pays more than either.

> There is no chance in hell writing a crud app delivers more value to society than saving one single life.

Depends on an app. A one that helps move medicine around more efficiently, or reduce pollution in a city, effectively saves lives. But I've noticed that building such apps tends to be low on the pay scale. What pays best in this industry is usually something that's a net negative to society, like adtech or gambling.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#314

Post by bakul »

systemvoltage wrote: post #9

Actually this pandemic has shown some true colors of many nations. 1) US trying to unsuccessfully hoard supplies, issues with the German testing company 2) China trying to use soft power, but the whole drama feels fake. It is good that they are sending supplies (often faulty and not up to the quality, see dutch story around this) but it doesn't feel genuine. 3) European countries are in-fighting for supplies. Switzer…

You forgot: 5) Rich nations hoovering up all coronavirus related supplies leaving poor nations precious little.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/09/world/coronavirus-equipme...

"Scientists in Africa and Latin America have been told by manufacturers that orders for vital testing kits cannot be filled for months, because the supply chain is in upheaval and almost everything they produce is going to America or Europe."

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#315

Post by dang »

All: using HN for nationalistic flamewar is against the site rules. Please read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. We ban accounts that break them, regardless of country, politics, or ideology and regardless of how wrong some other commenter is or you feel they are.

HN is for curious conversation. The idea is: if you have a substantive point to make, make it thoughtfully; if you don't, please don't comment until you do. Specifically, if you can't respect the person you're talking to, do yourself and all of us a favor and don't reply. You'll only make the thread worse, and it's wretched enough already.

If you don't want to see nagging announcements like this at the top of a thread, I sympathize; I don't want to write them either. Unfortunately, if users don't contain themselves, we end up in hell: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22823753. Please contain yourselves.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#316

Post by reaperducer »

FooBarWidget wrote: post #281
reaperducer wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The WHO constantly downplayed this pandemic and kowtowed to China See also: The whole WHO/Taiwan debacle, which is still ongoing. The WHO is OK risking the lives of people in Taiwan in order to keep the mainland happy. You would think that the WHO would put the health of people, regardless of where they live, ahead of politics.

WHO does not officially recognize Taiwan because the UN does not officially recognize Taiwan, and the WHO is a UN organization. It is as simple as that.if you disagree then you gotta take it to the UN.

It's not about recognition. It's about doing the right thing.

If the virus' impact in Puerto Rico was very different than it was in the rest of the United States, the WHO would note it publicly. But Taiwan't situation was actively suppressed by the WHO because of Beijing.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#317

Post by _bxg1 »

smacktoward wrote: post #312
elliekelly wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some ways it decreases risk though, too. The risk of war, specifically. The US and Chinese governments are far from friends but our economies are much too interconnected to allow either side to instigate too much of a disagreement. For the most part globalization is good but the pandemic has certainly highlighted the value of strategic redundancy or at least an emergency plan B.

The economist Norman Angell ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Angell ) published a highly influential book, The Great Illusion , making this exact argument. In 1909. It has, let’s say, not aged gracefully.

I think one of the greatest mistakes made over and over by sociologists, futurists, and economists, is to assume that people are rational.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#318

Post by mbrameld »

Nasrudith wrote: post #306
jennyyang wrote: post #4

At the very least, medical supplies and drugs manufacturing will get pulled back into each country. The 3M spat between Canada and the US makes it abundantly clear that in a time of true crisis, you can't even trust your closest friends when something terrifying happens to the world like this pandemic. Whether it means all manufacturing will move away from China or if it means that they will spread it globally, is an…

We have seen a lot of talk about a single point of failure but localizing the manufacturing isn't a pancaea by any means as they also shut down during pandemics. The only things immune are automated and unable to be contaminated. Also technically it is better for income inequality in global terms if it converges to a global median. That is why so many hate it because they are the ones with their ox gored by reduced i…

> localizing the manufacturing isn't a pancaea by any means as they also shut down during pandemics

But you eliminate other failure modes related to the pandemic that don't involve the plant physically not operating due to worker sickness or curve-flattening measures. If Canada produces their own masks then the US can't take them.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#319

Post by dang »

philliphaydon wrote: post #177
FooBarWidget wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well doesn't the fact that they mention "SARS" confirm that they didn't know it was a new virus? COVID-19 is not SARS. It's less lethal but far more contagious. SARS would not have been such a big issue because it doesn't spread as easily.

Lol Jesus Christ dude stop trying to make excuses for China trying to cover up the whole thing. In early December China thought it was SARS. They found out later it was Wu Flu. Doesn’t change the fact they knew sooner than you claim.

You've been posting a bunch of flamewar comments to HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22823753 was particularly shameful. That's easily a bannable offense. The reason I'm not banning you is that you've been here a long time and made many good contributions, which we really appreciate. But please don't post like this again.

It doesn't matter how wrong other people are or how bad some thing some people do in some country is. Two wrongs don't make a right and you can't vandalize HN like this. If you want to trash-talk, there are other places to do it.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#320

Post by dang »

philliphaydon wrote: post #47
FooBarWidget wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will also have to disagree on that one. I was born in China, I now live in Europe, and "CCP doesn't give a shit about people" is a bad western stereotype. Of course, define "caring". Does any other government, including democratic ones, truly care about people? Debatable. But what I'm saying is that CCP is not the mass-murdering villain that Hacker News makes it out to be. What about censorship, etc? Yes bad things…

> I was born in China Did you earn your red scarf?

Slurs like this will get you banned here. Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22827309 also.

People have been hounded off this site because of their national origin. I'm sure you'll agree that that's utterly shameful. Unfortunately it's what we end up with when people allow baser instincts to drive their posts.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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