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Pollution from tire wear is worse than exhaust emissions?

emissionsanalytics.com

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Re: Pollution from tire wear is worse than exhaust emissions?

#311

Post by ta999999171 »

labawi wrote: post #238
kungtotte wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're torn up from the road and rubbed off from the tyres themselves. The majority is obviously coming from the road. There's been studies done here in Sweden since we've banned studded winter tyres in some areas of Stockholm in an effort to reduce road wear and improve air quality. I don't know of any sources in English off the top of my head though. The last time I read an article about it though (2+ years ago, d…

Study mentions EU and source company has offices in Stokenchurch, UK and Stuttgart, Germany. I doubt they tested with studded tires and called it typical. They did test with brand new tires - that's the likely source. "Emissions Analytics .. [self proclaimed?] leading independent .. specialist for .. measurement of realworld emissions .. performed .. initial tyre wear testing. .. on brand new, correctly inflated tyre…

BANG - thank you.

Brand new tires have a molding protectant layer on them. "Scrubbing" is common in auto racing, on a new set.

Re: Pollution from tire wear is worse than exhaust emissions?

#312

Post by chillwaves »

ars wrote: post #296
chillwaves wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can understand the car part (pounds per square inch) but why would a person's feet have more than 35 psi? If I have something like 60 (30 per) square inches of feet, and I weigh 180lbs, would that be 3 psi for my feet? Even if only parts of my feet were striking the ground at a time, how would that be more than a car?

High heels. Also in this specific case we are talking about metal spiked ice shoes.

Thanks, that makes it very clear.

All your posts are helpful.

For example, I never before considered the implications of tire PSI.

Re: Pollution from tire wear is worse than exhaust emissions?

#313

Post by hinkley »

undersuit wrote: post #195
hinkley wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recall a buddy proselytizing on the virtues of rotating your bike tires every couple thousand miles, which for that group was about once a year (and replace in the spring)

My issue with that is how your control comes from the front tire on bicycles. Anytime I have a tire issue the front tire gets the newest rubber. Rotating tires is just spreading the wear and reduced traction to your steering tire.

After thinking about it a bit, I believe he was suggesting rotating at 1k, and replacing the tires every 2k. Which would still leave an awful lot of tread, but also be a more aggressive replacement period than most people would do.

Re: Pollution from tire wear is worse than exhaust emissions?

#314

Post by ta999999171 »

wool_gather wrote: post #277
npunt wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excellent use of back of the envelope math. I wonder if maybe the loss is non-linear, and a bit more is coming off because the tires are brand new. Perhaps there’s some coating on new tires before they ‘break in’?

Perhaps, but that would have to be a pretty steep curve, and one would expect that kind of falloff to have shown up in the data here (unless they literally drove the car once for only 1km, which...would be its own problem for credibility).

Not if everyone only reads the headline!

Re: Pollution from tire wear is worse than exhaust emissions?

#315

Post by ta999999171 »

gambiting wrote: post #244
jessaustin wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New pads on new passenger vehicles haven't, but it's still legal to use asbestos in aftermarket pads. https://parts.olathetoyota.com/what-are-brake-pads-made-of

Fitting or sale of automotive products containing asbestos has been banned in the EU since 2004 https://www.asbestosadvicehelpline.co.uk/is-asbestos-still-u...

I live in the other 75% of the world, though.

Re: Pollution from tire wear is worse than exhaust emissions?

#316

Post by mgleason_3 »

bigiain wrote: post #288
kungtotte wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're torn up from the road and rubbed off from the tyres themselves. The majority is obviously coming from the road. There's been studies done here in Sweden since we've banned studded winter tyres in some areas of Stockholm in an effort to reduce road wear and improve air quality. I don't know of any sources in English off the top of my head though. The last time I read an article about it though (2+ years ago, d…

>They're torn up from the road and rubbed off from the tyres themselves. The majority is obviously coming from the road. Not sure even that adds up to believable. The Sydney Harbour Bridge is about 500m long between the pylons. It has "more than 150,000 cars per day" on it (according to the snippet from a google search). If all of that was from the road, that'd mean there's about 160 tons of road getting torn up per…

Let's test it with basic math! The claim is "...performed some initial tyre wear testing. Using a popular family hatchback running on brand new, correctly inflated tyres, we found that the car emitted 5.8 grams per kilometer of particles.

If the average tire lasts 40,000 Kilometers then multiply that by 5.8 grams = 232Kg. 232Kg/4 tire per car = 58Kg per tire of tread. The tread is about 35% of the tire so the tire would need to weigh 165Kg. The average tire weights 20-22Kg, so that's a damn big tire!

New Asphalt might get tour up and account for additional particulate matter, but my understanding is that process slows considerably once the aggregate (small rocks) is exposed.

Re: Pollution from tire wear is worse than exhaust emissions?

#317

Post by clouddrover »

bigiain wrote: post #308
JangoSteve wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But is it a long stretch from the claim: "Non-exhaust emissions (NEE) are particles released into the air from brake wear, tyre wear, road surface wear and resuspension of road dust during on-road vehicle usage." Resuspension of road dust is literally one of the 4 things they defined as the NEE they're measuring.

OK, I missed that bit. But counting "resuspended road dust" as "emissions" seems pretty far fetched to me. Especially if that's a significant portion of the "5.8 grams per kilometer of particles", and you then push out a press release with the hyperbolic headline claim "Pollution from tire wear 1000 times worse than exhaust emissions." And they then have the audacity to claim: "Emissions Analytics seeks to bring tran…

Who's funding them? Radical balloonists? Big Rail? Maybe it's the Hovercraft Lobby! I never did trust them.

Re: Pollution from tire wear is worse than exhaust emissions?

#318

Post by bigiain »

clouddrover wrote: post #317
bigiain wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, I missed that bit. But counting "resuspended road dust" as "emissions" seems pretty far fetched to me. Especially if that's a significant portion of the "5.8 grams per kilometer of particles", and you then push out a press release with the hyperbolic headline claim "Pollution from tire wear 1000 times worse than exhaust emissions." And they then have the audacity to claim: "Emissions Analytics seeks to bring tran…

Who's funding them? Radical balloonists? Big Rail? Maybe it's the Hovercraft Lobby! I never did trust them.

Fossil fuel industry.

(But if it _is_ the Hovercraft Lobby, I'm totally in!)

Re: Pollution from tire wear is worse than exhaust emissions?

#319

Post by read_if_gay_ »

dragontamer wrote: post #125
read_if_gay_ wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are missing that the cost of bike lanes isn't just in constructing and maintaining them. Adding bike lanes in cities means dropping car lanes because there's not enough space. That ends up creating potentially huge opportunity costs.

Not quite IMO. Anyone who has done any amount of virtual traffic engineering (aka: Factorio, City Skylines, OpenTTD) knows that intersections are where the bottlenecks are. Its incredibly difficult to design a max-throughput intersection. Roads have a huge amount of throughput, most "traffic" just gets stuck at offramps and traffic lights. Narrowing a road to make room for bike lanes is a lower cost than people might…

But intersections also suffer if you give them less lanes. Say for each direction you have two lanes in your intersection, one for people going straight or turning right and one for people turning left. To get bike lanes, there’s no choice but to drop the lane for left turns (and my city has done this in a few places). Now you either forbid left turns completely on that intersection or every left turning car will completely stop traffic until it can move. Either way you’re creating a total mess.

Re: Pollution from tire wear is worse than exhaust emissions?

#320

Post by kungtotte »

ars wrote: post #254
kungtotte wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're torn up from the road and rubbed off from the tyres themselves. The majority is obviously coming from the road. There's been studies done here in Sweden since we've banned studded winter tyres in some areas of Stockholm in an effort to reduce road wear and improve air quality. I don't know of any sources in English off the top of my head though. The last time I read an article about it though (2+ years ago, d…

If the particles were coming from the road then roads would wear in very visible ways. But we don't actually see that kind of wear. Roads don't typically have grooves on them where the cars go that are lower than the middle which doesn't have tires driving over it.

Come to Sweden sometime.

I've driven down highways where you don't have to steer because the ruts are so deep.

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