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S&P 500 Buybacks Now Outpace All R&D Spending in the US

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Re: S&P 500 Buybacks Now Outpace All R&D Spending in the US

#311

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

JackFr wrote: post #180
rjkennedy98 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the very minimum it should be taxed the same as dividends. Essentially tax buybacks are a tax loophole for giving money back to the shareholder.

Another word for "a tax loophole" is "the tax law". The fact that ham fisted bureaucrats and legislators create unintended consequences with every "incentive" they put in the code makes it no less binding.

> unintended consequences

If you think those consequences are unintended, then I have a bridge to sell you.

Re: S&P 500 Buybacks Now Outpace All R&D Spending in the US

#313

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

yummypaint wrote: post #212
thehappypm wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never heard of extinction as a possible consequence of climate change. Care to elaborate how that might be possible? Even if society crumbles due to unrest, the Earth will be inhabitable in at least some areas. It's hard to imagine that every single human being on Earth will die.

There have already been multiple mass extinctions in the past driven by global climate shift. There are currently 1 million species at risk of extinction right now, which is a significant fraction of known species. Full on ecological collapse has been happening on all fronts for years, and it still continues to accelerate. "society" isnt responsible for pollinating plants or turning co2 into o2, and it's scary how ea…

The difference is that humans are capable of manipulating their environment to fit the climate.

We're the only species on the planet that lives in both 100+ degree deserts and frozen wastelands.

As long as it's still possible to grow crops, humanity will survive.

Re: S&P 500 Buybacks Now Outpace All R&D Spending in the US

#315

Post by mNovak »

LatteLazy wrote: post #106

R&D spending is a badly understood black box. we incentivise miss measuring it with weird tax breaks and complex rules. From an economic point of view, it's not clear that existing firms should be engaging in it: many industries follow model where specialists create new products which are then available to industry via a mix of buying out small firms, licensing their products or imitating them (that seems to be how b…

I suppose some amount of this line of reasoning (R&D is hidden under acquisitions) would be observable if changes in R&D spending were compensated by changes in total acquisitions (of smaller firms)

Re: S&P 500 Buybacks Now Outpace All R&D Spending in the US

#316

Post by ChrisLomont »

thebradbain wrote: post #277
ChrisLomont wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since 2019 is not yet filed I assume you mean 2018 as "last year". Here's Amazon's SEC filing for 2018 [1]. They paid 1+ billion on income taxes (page 37) on 11B in profits. They paid billions more in property taxes and other regulatory taxes. Note that annual taxes also are affected by previous year issues. This is why from the same document, same page, you see them paying 1.4B on 3.9B of profit. So getting upset ab…

They paid $1+ Billion local, state, and international taxes. They paid $0 in federal taxes. Definitely worth noting, imo. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/stephanied...

Nothing in your link shows Amazon paying zero in federal income taxes, except the statement by the author.

I trust SEC filings more than this article without supporting evidence.

From the SEC filing, on page 22, they talk about US income taxes, and state over the three years covered that they paid out billions with exact amounts in the SEC filing.

Care to provide a well sourced link with the zero federal income taxes claim supported by something legally binding like SEC filings or shareholder filings? I've never seen one to date.

Re: S&P 500 Buybacks Now Outpace All R&D Spending in the US

#317

Post by r_luna »

walshemj wrote: post #310
take_a_breath wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

==All told, 630,000 millionaires — about 1% of all IRA savers — cumulatively had more than $1 trillion in IRA accounts, accounting for 22% of all IRA assets.== https://www.marketwatch.com/story/how-to-shelter-hundreds-of...

So what a $millionaire is not in the super rich or even the rich class - well of middle class yes.

1 million dollars in a 401k is not the same as a 1 million dollars in a house. When the median american makes 65k per year and has 45k in disposable income it takes a lot of luck to put a million dollars into a 401K. There are 300 million+ americans, of which only 650k have a million or more in the 401k. How can we call the top 650K middle class?

Re: S&P 500 Buybacks Now Outpace All R&D Spending in the US

#318

Post by SlowRobotAhead »

metalgearsolid wrote: post #211
eloff wrote: post #157

This supports Peter Theil's theory that innovation has stagnated. When companies give their profits back to the shareholders instead of investing in continued innovation, because they can't figure out a way to innovate with that capital. The world needs more Elon Musk type of entrepreneurs.

Strongly agree. Elon Musks' $40k USD Cybertruck reveal was one of the first times in years it felt like our present was making some kind of headway into the future, but while also being accessible to common people ($40k truck is still a huge luxury don't get me wrong).

> 40k truck is still a huge luxury don't get me wrong)

I don’t think you have priced trucks in awhile. You can buy a 60k Jeep truck, an 85k RAM 2500, a 95k GMC Sierra ATR4 (or whatever), a 65k Bison Colorado, etc etc. Trucks got expensive. I think you price new 40k trucks you’re going to be looking at Tacomas.

40k for a specialty electric truck is absolutely too good to be true, and I promise you it won’t happen like that.

All that said, that Tesla truck isn’t even remotely real. There is almost no way it passes crash testing with 1/8th stainless steel panels as is, let alone European homologation requirements, it has no mirrors or wipers. It’s all for show right now so pardon me while I don’t join in the hyper parade.

(Source: Automotive Engineer)

Re: S&P 500 Buybacks Now Outpace All R&D Spending in the US

#319

Post by SlowRobotAhead »

eloff wrote: post #301
dlp211 wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or we could tax excess capital and reinvest it in ourselves as a country upgrading our infrastructure, educational attainment, health, and the common wealth.

This is not a popular idea in the US, but I think it would be smart to invest in the common health, education, and infrastructure.

I think there is a world of difference in invest in infrastructure and tax ourselves into prosperity.

One is an ends, the other is a means but not the only means.

Re: S&P 500 Buybacks Now Outpace All R&D Spending in the US

#320

Post by r_luna »

aguyfromnb wrote: post #248
jonathankoren wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Companies are giving their cash back to shareholders because each individual company thinks their shareholders can better allocate the cash, rather than the companies themselves. This is very strange explaination. As stated it sounds like stock buybacks are some sort of altruistic endeavor resulting from some kind of collective shrug. This couldn’t be further from truth. Buybacks are the result of executive incenti…

> This couldn’t be further from truth. Buybacks are the result of executive incentives to hit a certain stock valuation. Why do you ignore the people who choose to sell their shares to the company? Stock buybacks move cash from the company's coffers into the hands of selling shareholders, period. Whether it's good or bad to do so at any specific time is certainly debatable, but the idea that it "manipulates" the shar…

As a shareholder I want my money to be managed in a way that maximizes my investment. When executives incentives are paid by the value of the stock at a particular frozen moment in time, I get cheated. I get cheated because a buy back at the moment that the CEO and the board grade themselves is not in best long term interest of my wealth. I don't have time to be buying a selling stock everyday, they're fucking me by playing games. Money should be spent on research and development. That way GM and IBM dont become kodak, Walmart doesnt become Sears, and the great GE doesn't become...well GE is already there. Established american companies will grow from buy backs and mergers until they get disrupted because they didn't invest.
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