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Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

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Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#311

Post by alwillis »

filesystem wrote: post #258
Smithalicious wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This idea that "6+" years old is particularly old really irks me, because it's not. Most other things in my life that I rely on last longer than that. I also occasionally need to run software that's older than that. 6 years isn't nearly long enough to even consider dropping support on the OS level. Try twice that.

Apple is not looking at 6 year old applications and saying “It’s been long enough, time to drop support for this app”. They are looking at the 30+ year old architecture that is 32-bit x86.

Look, everyone knows how Apple rolls when it comes to operating systems--they kill old APIs, frameworks, and even entire classes of apps on a pretty regular basis.

No mainstream operating system that ran on 68000 processors in the 80's, PowerPC in the 90's and Intel since 2006 is even around today.

Y’all must have forgot how NeXTStep, which later became Mac OS X and now macOS ran on 68000, Sparc and MIPS back in the day.

The same way Apple was running Mac OS X on Intel hardware long before the first Intel Macs were released, there's got to be Arm-based MacBooks or Mac minis running macOS right now.

So it makes sense for Apple to get rid of as much technical debt as they can before making that jump.

And because of Catalyst, which enables iPad apps to be ported to macOS, there will be more apps for the Mac.

Some of the Catalyst apps have some rough edges and not all of the frameworks are available yet, but things look promising: https://9to5mac.com/2019/10/07/macos-catalina-catalyst-apps/.

Finally, Apple has been telling developers since Snow Leopard was released in 2009 about transitioning to 64-bit.

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#312

Post by speedplane »

alwillis wrote: post #311
filesystem wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is not looking at 6 year old applications and saying “It’s been long enough, time to drop support for this app”. They are looking at the 30+ year old architecture that is 32-bit x86.

Look, everyone knows how Apple rolls when it comes to operating systems--they kill old APIs, frameworks, and even entire classes of apps on a pretty regular basis. No mainstream operating system that ran on 68000 processors in the 80's, PowerPC in the 90's and Intel since 2006 is even around today. Y’all must have forgot how NeXTStep, which later became Mac OS X and now macOS ran on 68000, Sparc and MIPS back in the…

> Look, everyone knows how Apple rolls when it comes to operating systems--they kill old APIs, frameworks, and even entire classes of apps on a pretty regular basis.

Every platform has to balance the developer experience with the user experience. Microsoft, with their incredible backwards compatibility support, has one approach, whereas Apple has a very different one.

There is no right or wrong way.

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#313

Post by p7IDD243 »

cousin_it wrote: post #50

Funny thing about games: most revenue happens soon after release. It's like movies. A game from several years ago usually has low ongoing revenue, so there's little profit in updating it for a new OS. Many Mac games will just die. Especially indies, where the creator might have already moved on. Do you own any nice but not very successful Mac games? They'll die. This move destroys the reputation of Mac as a game plat…

> I can just move to PC and keep the games I own.

A small nitpick, you don't _own_ the games in your Steam library.

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#314

Post by nightfly »

p7IDD243 wrote: post #313
cousin_it wrote: post #50

Funny thing about games: most revenue happens soon after release. It's like movies. A game from several years ago usually has low ongoing revenue, so there's little profit in updating it for a new OS. Many Mac games will just die. Especially indies, where the creator might have already moved on. Do you own any nice but not very successful Mac games? They'll die. This move destroys the reputation of Mac as a game plat…

> I can just move to PC and keep the games I own. A small nitpick, you don't _own_ the games in your Steam library.

You don't own _any_ video games, you have a license and might happen to have physical media.

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#315

Post by pjmlp »

coldtea wrote: post #216
pjmlp wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

App store gold rush is gone. As for the .NET remark, you seem to be really pissed off about something, always bitching about MS stuff. .NET couldn't be better.

> App store gold rush is gone. Depends what "gold rush" means. The App Store makes more money than ever.

For the top 1% of app developers that try their luck, out for people living in first tier countries.

And if we remove the FAANG related products even less.

The world is a little bigger than that.

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#316

Post by pjmlp »

scarface74 wrote: post #161
pjmlp wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

App store gold rush is gone. As for the .NET remark, you seem to be really pissed off about something, always bitching about MS stuff. .NET couldn't be better.

I’ve never said that .Net wasn’t great. I said it would be dumb to tie your career to .Net Framework that is Windows only and is maintenance mode instead of .Net Core. I’ve had enough conversations with you on HN that I know you know the difference. And I’ve said that most of the energy is going toward mobile, the web and services. No one outside of game makers are making money selling mobile apps. But they are makin…

.NET Framework and .NET Core are .NET.

Windows is doing pretty well across 80% of desktop, laptop and 2-1 hybrid devices.

As mentioned, I spent the last 5 years doing Forms/WPF/UWP, and there is plenty of work there. Just as there is for anyone wanting to bother with either Qt or macOS.

At least in Europe no one starves by focusing on being a desktop developer.

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#317

Post by lloeki »

snagglegaggle wrote: post #193
ajconway wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not against ToS to run VMs with Windows in them. It's also fine to virtualize a copy of macOS on an original hardware, but it hardly does anything for gaming as there is still no GPU acceleration available for macOS guests.

I was referring to macOS/OSX, but for Windows, it's actually against the licenses to virtualize anything but the Pro or Enterprise version. Considering the provisions in the DMCA about circumvention of copy protection being allowable, I'm not sure how enforceable this is. Turns out other comments confirm for macOS, but I was under the impression Apple hadn't commented on it, though a plain reading of the license indi…

> it's actually against the licenses to virtualize anything but the Pro or Enterprise version

At some point it was OK to virtualise Home OEM versions as long as it was not running twice at the same time. The wording made it so you couldn’t virtualise Win on Win with the same license but virtualising in a host OS like Linux on the hardware the OEM license was tied to was allowed. I don’t know how that flied with non-OEM Home licenses or if even that changed at some point though.

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#318

Post by sbuk »

AndriyKunitsyn wrote: post #285
filesystem wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is not looking at 6 year old applications and saying “It’s been long enough, time to drop support for this app”. They are looking at the 30+ year old architecture that is 32-bit x86.

Who cares? At the end of the day, what matters is people’s stuff that they paid for is broken.

That’s a rather simplistic view of things. The long and the short of it is this; it’s not Apple’s responsibility to to ensure Adobe’s software runs on their platform, it’s Adobe’s and Adobe no longer support CS6.

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#319

Post by jasomill »

wil421 wrote: post #74
semiotagonal wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a 32-bit application I use regularly to interface with old hardware (which isn't on the list incidentally; I suspect there are many other niche applications like this). The hardware vendor isn't going to re-write it. As such I have to... 1) Avoid MacOS upgrades forever, or 2) Let the hardware become nearly impossible to use (there are workarounds on the device itself, but it's really painful to use), or 3) Wri…

Is it possible to virtualization an older release of OS X and run your app? It might be hard to find an image but it can be done. I have a 2011 MBP that bit the dust and I’ve seen been able to virtualize OS X (not sure about MacOS) and load a back up from Time Machine.

Certainly. Proof, ca. 2017: https://jasomill.at/X×X.jpg

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#320

Post by freeone3000 »

scarface74 wrote: post #11
chimi wrote: post #2

This is why Microsoft is the better long-term play: Backwards compatibility -- their commitment to the investment of labor. If you build your software on Apple, there almost certainly will come a point in the future where your code will cease to work. Microsoft has made a commitment to backward compatibility. It's such a huge benefit. I have code that has continued to run, untouched, for decades . I don't have to upg…

And how much has it cost Microsoft? Apple was able to successfully take the base of MacOS and port it’s operating system to a much lower spec phone back in 2007 and came to dominate the smart phone market (in profit they only thing that matters), the tablet market where MS failed repeatedly, not to mention it was able to port the base OS to everything from Watches and TV set top boxes - all things that Microsoft trie…

Windows runs on refrigerators and signage panels and ATMs just fine. It's not based on since inherent technical inadequacy, people just don't like MS products. Usually because they're late and don't quite align with what normal people want... But I don't think this has anything to do with backwards compatibility. From the Zune to WP10, what kills Microsoft in an area is "Also-ran", "not good enough", and "kinda clunky"
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