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I feel like im talking to the borg

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Re: I feel like im talking to the borg

#311

Post by username90 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #290
username90 wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The cynic in me thinks, if unions were such a bad thing, why wouldn't the owners let them form, burn the employees, and decertify? Because unions gets more powerful than any company and can leverage said power against both workers and employers. Lets take SAG-AFTRA as an example, a union many here at HN says the software industry should mimic. Their contracts with their workers states that the workers are not allow…

> Why would workers not just stop being in the union, since it costs $3k to join and 2% of your salary to stay? Because the entire workforce at a union shop has to quit at once, at the same time the shop has to decide that they are not a union shop any longer. Or a majority has to elect new leadership in the union who will replace the problematic rules. Or a majority (either of the whole membership or of workers in a…

Or we just don't have a union in the first place.

Re: I feel like im talking to the borg

#312

Post by duxup »

cal5k wrote: post #214
duxup wrote: post #125

I feel like this is twitter in a nutshell, and that goes for everyone involved. The very first response is "eally like? cause your workers are liars?" There we go, now the entire conversation is everything or nothing, you're either with them or against them. Then it's off into personal attacks and arguments about followers and etc. Nobody is talking to each other in any of that. They're just posting for everyone else…

I had to delete Twitter from my phone - I found it would make me angry for no discernible reason, and I'm generally a pretty even-tempered person. Not healthy. Once you detach, you realize quickly that much of Twitter represents a tiny minority of loud, self-righteous people. When "Twitter explodes" in righteous indignation, I feel like the best move would simply be to ignore it and wait for everyone to move on.

It's so hard to know what "twitter explodes" even means.

I imagine hundreds of thousands of users could go bonkers about something and it not matter at all. Also 1k users get upset and in the larger world that issue really matters.

I have to work really hard at pruning what I follow on twitter in a constant effort to keep things "on topic" in regard to why I followed some things.

Re: I feel like im talking to the borg

#313

Post by ztjio »

blhack wrote: post #307
duxup wrote: post #125

I feel like this is twitter in a nutshell, and that goes for everyone involved. The very first response is "eally like? cause your workers are liars?" There we go, now the entire conversation is everything or nothing, you're either with them or against them. Then it's off into personal attacks and arguments about followers and etc. Nobody is talking to each other in any of that. They're just posting for everyone else…

>There we go, now the entire conversation is everything or nothing, you're either with them or against them. Then it's off into personal attacks and arguments about followers and etc. I really think this is by design at Twitter. The confusing way that the conversations are structured, and intentionally limited to allow any possibility for nuance of any kind, just maximizes outrage. Essentislly twitter wants you to go…

That's an interesting fantasy, but, Twitter's "design" originates from being nothing more than a simplistic broadcast SMS tool where every message had to fit in an SMS including the username/command part as originally SMS was the primary way people used Twitter.

After that, nearly every single aspect of Twitter was actually invented by its users including @ replies, and mechanisms for "threading." All that Twitter has done is ride that user behavior by slightly conforming to it through actions like UI trying to follow threads via text relationships, or eventually adding actual reply metadata to tweets.

And the increase in messages size? That came with a huge backlash from many of its users.

To imply that Twitter has somehow cleverly engineered the dumpster fire that burns everlasting there is giving them FAR, FAR more credit than they deserve.

Re: I feel like im talking to the borg

#314

Post by 6gvONxR4sf7o »

duxup wrote: post #152
Barrin92 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>you're either with them or against them. well if you're dealing with a corporate entity the size of amazon and their weird bot/shill twitter army that's pretty much the only sane response. Do you seriously think if you chat nicely with these PR people they're going to hook you up with someone who matters and amazon is going to have a nice chat about their anti-union practises with you over a cup of tea? Makes about…

> and if these combatative tweets bring attention to their PR campaigns than that's a plus I'm not convinced that's a thing. I see a lot of twitter styled activism and I'm not sure what the impact is outside of maybe some anecdotal events.

Why, that's how mobs work, of course! We've see plenty of instances of mob justice on twitter.

https://theweek.com/articles/787650/how-twitter-facebook-are...

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/15/magazine/how-one-stupid-t...

Re: I feel like im talking to the borg

#316

Post by 6gvONxR4sf7o »

Barrin92 wrote: post #168
duxup wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and if these combatative tweets bring attention to their PR campaigns than that's a plus I'm not convinced that's a thing. I see a lot of twitter styled activism and I'm not sure what the impact is outside of maybe some anecdotal events.

of course a single young person can't do much other than speak (which is after all supposed to be the point of twitter), but on the aggregate it does shift the conservation. Over the last few years people have become more aware of amazon's business practises and it is starting to be reflected in politics, on both sides of the isle. Sure, a tweet chain like this isn't going to change the world, but it's better than no…

> on the aggregate it does shift the conservation.

I think this is totally overblown. Reddit thinks they did it. Twitter thinks they did it. Politicians think they did it. News organizations think they did it. People in the streets think they did it.

Sure everyone contributes, but except for some limited circumstances, I'm going to give the least credit to those of us on the couch and put the most credit at the feet of the investigative reporters and researchers who provide more than mob shame and anecdotes.

Re: I feel like im talking to the borg

#317

Post by papreclip »

WhompingWindows wrote: post #266

Can someone explain why the warehouse workers have to walk 10-20 miles per day? Wouldn't it be faster to give them rollerskates or a scooter? Is it a safety concern?

If you spend all day walking, you rack up miles. As a furniture mover I was walking 8-10 miles a day, carrying furniture for a significant fraction of that.

If these workers are walking across giant warehouses they should definitely have bikes laying around. Rollerskates seem dangerous

Re: I feel like im talking to the borg

#318

Post by benj111 »

duxup wrote: post #310
benj111 wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's different in a way that makes an important point. Could it have be put differently? Probably, but another rule of good discourse is to play the argument not the man (or the presentation), so you again seem to be making the parents point.

Maybe I'm missing something but the text is nearly identical except to show how forums might provide similar motivations. That's pretty redundant. HN is pretty strict about low quality content and such, that's not "proving a point" it's just a question of local traditions. Personal I've little regard for "you're proving my point by down-voting me" kind of arguments, it's always almost self serving and either a questi…

So we're on the same page, I understood qwsxyh to be making reference to hacker news. In view of that the up/down votes clearly aren't what make twitter what it is, or else HN would be the same, and I hope we can both agree that it isn't. So what is the difference? Id say culture, you're saying traditions (potato, potahto), so what is that culture? I would say at minimum communicating a reason for downvotes, rather than than just the blunt instrument of the downvote alone. Another cultural trait is frowning on ad hominem attacks, because its the message that should be debated, debating the form of the message seems closely related to me.

So it isn't about "you're proving my point by down-voting me"

Re: I feel like im talking to the borg

#319

Post by lm28469 »

castlecrasher2 wrote: post #55

This is a striking example of someone being so concerned about a group that they don't listen to members of that group.

I mean, we're talking about amazon here... In a David vs Goliath situation always pay more attention to the side that has nothing to lose (hint: not amazon). Should you listen to these Ambassadors™️ or to the thousands of current/ex amazon employees expressing things that are going in the complete opposite direction ?

Re: I feel like im talking to the borg

#320

Post by duxup »

ztjio wrote: post #313
blhack wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There we go, now the entire conversation is everything or nothing, you're either with them or against them. Then it's off into personal attacks and arguments about followers and etc. I really think this is by design at Twitter. The confusing way that the conversations are structured, and intentionally limited to allow any possibility for nuance of any kind, just maximizes outrage. Essentislly twitter wants you to go…

That's an interesting fantasy, but, Twitter's "design" originates from being nothing more than a simplistic broadcast SMS tool where every message had to fit in an SMS including the username/command part as originally SMS was the primary way people used Twitter. After that, nearly every single aspect of Twitter was actually invented by its users including @ replies, and mechanisms for "threading." All that Twitter ha…

I'm not sure the other user means they engineered "the dumpster fire" as much as their idea of engagement combined with the shallow text field, and the way retweets and etc work that it produced the inevitable.

Both could be "by design".

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