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Java 12

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311–320 of 478 posts

Re: Java 12

#311
post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like we won't have them in the next LTS, so probably another 5 years at least.

Next lts is 14 which is due in a year as I understand the new release schedule.

No, the next scheduled LTS will be 17. The idea is that 1 release every 3 years will be an LTS release.

I’m not sure what would happen if values landed in 18, it might be an important enough change for people to want break the LTS cadence.

Re: Java 12

#312
post #177
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their lower end target is 10 ms. In a game, 16 ms is your entire time budget.

ZGC, included in JDK 11, has a 1ms average pause time and 4ms max on some demanding benchmarks, and they're now targeting 1ms max pauses. https://www.opsian.com/blog/javas-new-zgc-is-very-exciting/

If it lives up to claims surely it’s a paid for add on?

Re: Java 12

#313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maven is an incredible system. It can do so much and yet, even though I've setup countless apps and services, I can never use it without looking literally everything up. Maven and spring are the worst parts, for me, when dealing with Java. I don't mind the language at all.

Yeah I felt the same. The language is fine. It’s got a fantastic set of libraries and a large ecosystem and one would be hard pressed to not find a job being a competent Java dev but maven ugh

With maven, less is more. Huge maven files usually means something is wrong.

Follow the conventions and it is less than a screenful for a basic project.

I typically solved maven problems by removing cruft and falling back to the standards.

Re: Java 12

#314
post #214

I'm so glad I was taught Java at Macquarie University back in 1998. For the past 20 years I've had a career built on a solid API that doesn't change every 2 years like some flavour-of-the-month Javascript framework. Even on the client where Java has lost to Javascript, I'm finding it more enjoyable to add features to my 15-year-old SWT app [0] rather than dealing with the multiple layers of abstractions that is Javas…

The times of ever-changing JavaScript frontend frameworks is long behind us (and, arguably, React has won for MVw-style browser apps). The core node.js web serving APIs (expressjs and core http request API, which expressjs middlewares forwards and decorates) is stable since node.js v0.1 or at least 2015, and infinitely better than Java's servlet, JSP, and taglib APIs (web.xml/jetty-config.xml anyone?). The flip side…

In all these years I have used Spring exactly once for an architecture prototype, during one month project.

All our customers doing Java Web projects are either on JEE, or a CMS platform running on top of servlets and JEE related JSRs, like Liferay and AM.

Re: Java 12

#315
post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Java gives you a flexible object oriented language and an incredible set of libraries. It's got an archiver for artifact and dependency management. It now has lambdas and has FRP style stream programming. I'd say it's kept up pretty well with modern fashion, while it's been doing other things far longer than newer, more popular languages. Take Swift, now my daily driver (which I love so much compared to ObjC, which I…

Kotlin though. Everything you said, but a joy to write instead of a chore.

I am betting Kotlin is the new Groovy.

Lets see where it stands 5 years from now, specially if Fuchsia actually gets released.

Re: Java 12

#316
post #214

I'm so glad I was taught Java at Macquarie University back in 1998. For the past 20 years I've had a career built on a solid API that doesn't change every 2 years like some flavour-of-the-month Javascript framework. Even on the client where Java has lost to Javascript, I'm finding it more enjoyable to add features to my 15-year-old SWT app [0] rather than dealing with the multiple layers of abstractions that is Javas…

> It's also a shame Sun sold Java to Oracle Worse: Oracle bought Sun.

Worse: IBM, Google and everyone else could have done it as well, but decided not to counter-offer.

Re: Java 12

#317
post #214

I'm so glad I was taught Java at Macquarie University back in 1998. For the past 20 years I've had a career built on a solid API that doesn't change every 2 years like some flavour-of-the-month Javascript framework. Even on the client where Java has lost to Javascript, I'm finding it more enjoyable to add features to my 15-year-old SWT app [0] rather than dealing with the multiple layers of abstractions that is Javas…

The times of ever-changing JavaScript frontend frameworks is long behind us (and, arguably, React has won for MVw-style browser apps). The core node.js web serving APIs (expressjs and core http request API, which expressjs middlewares forwards and decorates) is stable since node.js v0.1 or at least 2015, and infinitely better than Java's servlet, JSP, and taglib APIs (web.xml/jetty-config.xml anyone?). The flip side…

Any app reaching complexity of what’s being done on Java will look the same, no matter what platform do you choose. I haven’t yet seen large nodejs deployments with MLOCs and hundreds of developers, but I’m pretty sure it can easily become much bigger mess - the tools and the libraries are immature, there’s lack of enterprise SDLC patterns etc, which creates a lot of obstacles. Spring is becoming too enterprisey these days, that’s true, but it’s still fit for use in modern architectures - only if you understand how to utilize all of its capabilities.

Re: Java 12

#318
post #217
post #27

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GC pauses have been one of the major barriers to using garbage collected (read: higher-level) languages for game development. This could open up the JVM for games, which could have some exciting implications.

The first thing a game programmer will do in a garbage collected environment is either try to disable it or control it.

Or learn that maybe for the game that they are making it doesn't matter.

And if it does, making themselved acquainted with how value types, slices and gc-free pointers work would probably be a better idea.

Re: Java 12

#319
post #214

I'm so glad I was taught Java at Macquarie University back in 1998. For the past 20 years I've had a career built on a solid API that doesn't change every 2 years like some flavour-of-the-month Javascript framework. Even on the client where Java has lost to Javascript, I'm finding it more enjoyable to add features to my 15-year-old SWT app [0] rather than dealing with the multiple layers of abstractions that is Javas…

The times of ever-changing JavaScript frontend frameworks is long behind us (and, arguably, React has won for MVw-style browser apps). The core node.js web serving APIs (expressjs and core http request API, which expressjs middlewares forwards and decorates) is stable since node.js v0.1 or at least 2015, and infinitely better than Java's servlet, JSP, and taglib APIs (web.xml/jetty-config.xml anyone?). The flip side…

Haha! Funny man! I am only doing javascript occasionly. Most of my time i do python and swift.

Even stuff in “core” dependencies like webpack/yarn/npm/npx/nvm/babel changes a few times a year.

Right now doing a react native app and a browser extension. While javascript/typescript is fun to write, the time you have to spend fixing the tools is just horrible. Whiping cache, rebooting, switching package versions.. It makes the overall experience cumbersome.

I would not call something stable if it manages to work 2 whole years.

Re: Java 12

#320
post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think reference counting leads to shorter pauses than tracing? While it is absolutely true that sophisticated implementations of garbage collection via ref counting can exhibit similar performance to sophisticated tracing algorithms[1], most implementations of ref counting aren't nearly as sophisticated as modern implementations of tracing, and tend to be worse. [1]: https://www.cs.virginia.edu/~cs415/…

Not necessarily shorter, but predictable pauses.

Very predicatable indeed.

Go and C# running circles around Swift.

"35C3 - Safe and Secure Drivers in High-Level Languages"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSuRyLBrXgI

Possible stack overflows and unexpected pauses due to heavily nested data structures.

"CppCon 2016: Herb Sutter “Leak-Freedom in C++... By Default."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfmTagWcqoE

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