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One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

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Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#311

Post by vonseel »

ekianjo wrote: post #245
pvaldes wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is there anything quite as shared as DNA? Music for example. The same poool of musical notes in 100% of compositions. Just arranged in different ways, like DNA

Completely wrong analogy. Most genes sequences are completely identical between humans. The differences in genes for specific traits are marginal, percentage wise.

Hmm, I would have guessed differently but I was also an undergrad biology dropout :/ wasn’t concrete enough for me.

FWIW I can see where he was coming from.

Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#312

Post by NeedMoreTea »

vonseel wrote: post #309
mirimir wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here. However, I have no illusions about stopping any of this. The global panopticon is just too useful for authoritarians. So my solution is to avoid attracting any attention in meatspace. Not doing anything that could generate troublesome records. Such as leaving DNA around. I mean, I certainly leave DNA around, when I go out for stuff. But there's nothing involved that I need to hide. I also make no effort to…

This has to be one of the strangest replies I’ve ever read on HN. Off to google the term “meatspace” now.

http://catb.org/jargon/html/M/meatspace.html

Goes back to the earliest days of online existence, to distinguish the two.

Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#313

Post by Quekid5 »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #293
ptero wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Total surveillance or global DNA law enforcement database would solve many murders and prevent wrongful convictions. However, it would also give many opportunities for framing convenient suspects and "encouraging" confessions. I am sure your case was above board but, being born in a totalitarian state, I do not trust law enforcement too much and prefer to err on the side of not solving some crimes. My 2c.

So, as with all things which can be good or bad depending on use, we allow people to voluntarily choose whether to participate. What’s the problem?

Lack of truly informed consent

Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#314

Post by mirimir »

vonseel wrote: post #309
mirimir wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here. However, I have no illusions about stopping any of this. The global panopticon is just too useful for authoritarians. So my solution is to avoid attracting any attention in meatspace. Not doing anything that could generate troublesome records. Such as leaving DNA around. I mean, I certainly leave DNA around, when I go out for stuff. But there's nothing involved that I need to hide. I also make no effort to…

This has to be one of the strangest replies I’ve ever read on HN. Off to google the term “meatspace” now.

Well, there was the "Meat Puppets", formed in 1980.

And then Terry Bisson's "They're Made Out of Meat", published in 1990:[0]

> "They're made out of meat."

> "Meat?"

> "Meat. They're made out of meat."

> "Meat?"

> "There's no doubt about it. We picked up several from different parts of the planet, took them aboard our recon vessels, and probed them all the way through. They're completely meat."

So yeah, it's a term that we old geeks use.

Recent usage by John Markoff:

> "True Names" by Vernor Vinge (1981): "The basic premise of that was, you had to basically hide your true name at all costs. It was an insight into the world we’re living in today … We have to figure it out. I think we have to go to pseudonymity or something. You’re gonna participate in this networked existence, you have to be connected to meatspace in some way."

And yes, we "have to go to pseudonymity or something". If we care about privacy, anyway.

0) http://www.terrybisson.com/page6/page6.html

1) http://renaissancechambara.jp/2017/06/14/oprah-time-true-nam...

Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#315

Post by EliRivers »

ehsankia wrote: post #280
twoquestions wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

`law enforcement a means to potentially quickly identify violent criminals` Go ahead and replace "law enforcement" with political group you don't like, and "violent criminals" for a group you do.

Giving data to the FBI, and giving data to any random political group are very very different things. This straw man can probably be seen from space.

That random political group will one day be in power, or a larger political group will adopt their policies to take their votes.

Sure, maybe not, but maybe so. It does happen.

Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#316

Post by pvaldes »

ekianjo wrote: post #245
pvaldes wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is there anything quite as shared as DNA? Music for example. The same poool of musical notes in 100% of compositions. Just arranged in different ways, like DNA

Completely wrong analogy. Most genes sequences are completely identical between humans. The differences in genes for specific traits are marginal, percentage wise.

And everybody uses a microphone, guitar, bass, keyboard and some kind of cowbell. trebble clef, bass clef, verse, hooks, a chorus, tempo, allegro, presto, bits per minute... completely identical in many songs.

Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#317

Post by dennisgorelik »

ptero wrote: post #119
dangrossman wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and their families That's how a local cold murder case was solved last year. DNA from a 25-year-old crime scene was run against the samples in one of these genealogy databases, and they found a familial match. Police set up a sting to covertly collect DNA from that person's immediate family. They got their DNA match with a brother's water bottle police took from a trash can after he worked a DJ gig at a school. htt…

Total surveillance or global DNA law enforcement database would solve many murders and prevent wrongful convictions. However, it would also give many opportunities for framing convenient suspects and "encouraging" confessions. I am sure your case was above board but, being born in a totalitarian state, I do not trust law enforcement too much and prefer to err on the side of not solving some crimes. My 2c.

Increase in the ratio of solved crimes will make society less tolerant of wrongful convictions.

If ratio of solved crimes is not high enough -- society tolerates wrongful convictions -- because without risking wrongful convictions it is hard to make any convictions at all.

Because DNA testing increases the ratio of solved crimes, it decreases the chances of wrongful convictions.

Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#318

Post by [deleted] »

jhayward wrote: post #112
lotsofpulp wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What rights? Surely if you have rights to your DNA, then your family member has rights to their DNA. It’s just an unfortunate consequence of how DNA works.

It is probably wrong to think of DNA as personal property. Its public use more closely resembles a commons which is shared by many. We don't give individuals the right to pollute air, for instance, simply because they own property that has air on it. Likewise we should develop principles for information which when combined with other information can be used to transgress against 3rd parties' enjoyment of their own pr…

[deleted]

Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#319

Post by winston_smith »

jcims wrote: post #176
est31 wrote: post #39

To my knowledge, in California, a genetic sample has to be recovered and stored of every baby born? The archive is run by the state government. So why do they not use this registry that they already have full control over, but the data from the DNA company?

I wonder if it's legal to leave the state to deliver your baby for the sole purpose of dodging the collection.

All 50 states have screening programs, so you'd have to go international. But you can refuse the test, and in fact the Mayo Clinic Labs have a test they can mail to your doctor that you can use instead: https://www.mayocliniclabs.com/test-info/newborn/index.html

Better plan it in advance though.

Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#320

Post by winston_smith »

Better yet, all 50 US states have government-run newborn heel prick programs, and they keep the blood. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/california-biobank-dna-babies-w...

It's cartoonishly evil. The government literally takes and stores the blood of all newborn infants.

There's a good thing they do with it, which is screening for genetic diseases, and some epidemiology. But there's nothing preventing them doing all that without tying it to each newborn's identity.

The doctors are stupid about it, but very few are going to forcibly take a blood sample from an infant while you protest and film it with your phone. And they'll give you horror stories and guilt trips about all the awful diseases your infant might have if you skip the test.

But fortunately the Mayo Clinic Labs have a test they can mail to your doctor that you can use instead: https://www.mayocliniclabs.com/test-info/newborn/index.html

Better plan it in advance though, and don't let the doctors put you off. Because once baby arrives, you'll be tired and the doctors will use all kinds of time pressure on you.

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