US Announces Withdraw From Postal Treaty • Hacker News Board

Re: US Announces Withdraw From Postal Treaty

#311

Post by ikeboy » Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 5:35 PM UTC

Spooky23 wrote: post #309

ikeboy wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note this news has nothing to do with epacket

Huh? epacketEMS is a class of mail with tracking. How is it unrelated?

ePacket rates are negotiated directly, not set under the UPU treaty which the US is planning on exiting.

The USPS makes a profit on epacket shipments [0][1], but loses money on UPU inbound shipments. The two aren't directly related.

[0] https://www.uspsoig.gov/sites/default/files/document-library..., page 6 table 2

[1] https://www.uspsoig.gov/sites/default/files/document-library..., footnote 17

Re: US Announces Withdraw From Postal Treaty

#312

Post by jrnichols » Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 5:39 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #196

jrnichols wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what I've been gathering too. Trump signed a few bills recently, and while they weren't his administration's bill in the first place, that hasn't stopped the media (and definitely social media) from trash talking Trump constantly. It's almost as if people that hate Trump with the ferocity that they do are incapable of reporting anything positive and just saying "Ok, this was a good thing."

> Trump signed a few bills recently, and while they weren't his administration's bill in the first place This is a bizarre statement. If he's signing the bill, his administration - and him specifically - is explicitly endorsing it. That's the whole point of the thing.

I don't think it's a bizarre statement to note that a few of the bills that he has signed did not originate with the Trump administration itself.

Re: US Announces Withdraw From Postal Treaty

#313

Post by notfromhere » Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 5:44 PM UTC

jayd16 wrote: post #77

Do people in this thread realize the USPS is almost entirely self funded? I see a lot of talk about tax dollars etc. The USPS doesn't work that way.

It is subsidized through a number of different ways, but nationwide postage also shouldn't be a profit center, given how much other economic activity it fosters.

Re: US Announces Withdraw From Postal Treaty

#314

Post by blihp » Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 5:44 PM UTC

daveFNbuck wrote: post #295

blihp wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It made sense when they were truly a developing country. But the issue is that entire businesses have been built on top of exploiting these rates. For example, a few years back I bought several specialized antenna cables for $2-3 online (total price, including shipping) and assumed they must be surplus some warehouse was trying to unload here in the U.S. and they'd just drop them in domestic First Class mail. I could…

This asymmetry also prevents you from doing a return when your $2 cable is broken or doesn't match the description.

Yup. I figure that anything I need to return / repair has at least $40-50 in overhead. The current shipping situation amplifies however good/bad the deal you got was.

Re: US Announces Withdraw From Postal Treaty

#315

Post by tropo » Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 5:46 PM UTC

zolthrowaway wrote: post #161

burfog wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't time to give up on the USA. The USA got an extra 378000 manufacturing jobs in the past year and a half. That is jobs, not just automated production.

Even if you have a source for this data, how many of these jobs are going to be lost to automation and process improvements in the next 5-10 years? My father recently retired form a steel mill. He wasn't replaced. My city's entire economy used to be based around steel manufacturing. There's still plants here, but the number of people who work in the steel industry has steadily declined. Here is a cited source to say…

How recent? Steel is doing very well right now. They are hiring. Your source even shows this, not that your source is at all trustworthy.

1990 is a long time ago.

Steel is far from the only kind of manufacturing. Even if steel mill jobs all disappeared, overall manufacturing could be doing well. I'm not even 100% sure that steel should be lumped in with manufacturing; it's kind of like the final step of mining.

Process enhancements and technology face declining benefits. At some point, you've automated everything that makes sense to automate.

The jobs are going to stick around for 10 years unless we go back to a policy of purposely regulating American industry out of existence.

Re: US Announces Withdraw From Postal Treaty

#316

Post by dawnerd » Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 5:58 PM UTC

onion2k wrote: post #37

dawnerd wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which isn’t a bad thing. Maybe we’ll see less spam drop shipped items on Amazon finally. eBay too.

The things you see on Amazon are bought by the container-load from China and sent to Amazon's warehouses for fulfilment. This change will encourage that sort of business because it'll no longer be worthwhile sending direct from China (as the likes of dx.com and aliexpress do now).

I was more referencing the non amazon distributed items, ones shipped and sold by third party.

Re: US Announces Withdraw From Postal Treaty

#317

Post by m0llusk » Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 6:05 PM UTC

GlobalFrog wrote: post #184

paulsutter wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Globalization is about an even playing field, not one-sided concessions and subsidies

That is the theory. I might be pessimistic, but it looks to me that everyone claims that one want that even playing field and at the same time, hides as much subsidies as possible to be able to protect ones own industries. Europe is heavily subsidizing its agriculture. The US are heavily subsidizing anything that has a link to anything military and oil. And others are doing the same. True, a few markets have been fre…

New Zealand cut off its agricultural subsides and its food exports exploded. Realities of globalization include problems and trade offs but do not match this criticism.

Re: US Announces Withdraw From Postal Treaty

#318

Post by specialist » Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 6:06 PM UTC

baybal2 wrote: post #250

raquo wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the issue here is not the differential in efficiencies. It's China receiving subsidies from the US because it was considered a developing country in 1969. It's not anymore, it's a global superpower now, it can pay its own postage.

No, every few years, there is a reevaluation. Last one was in 2016.

Huh. Very interesting. I have a notion that all decisions should auto expire and be explicitly renewed. Because it's so hard to cull outdated or revisit / repair suboptimal rules. Inspired by stuff like IP/TCP leases and cache TTL.

But your example of the powers that be waving thru a bad rule refresh suggests my notion won't be sufficient.

Thoughts?

Re: US Announces Withdraw From Postal Treaty

#319

Post by nojvek » Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 6:06 PM UTC

Credit where credit is due. This is very much a “America First” move and deserves kudos. I no longer consider China a developing nation.

Re: US Announces Withdraw From Postal Treaty

#320

Post by ceejayoz » Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 6:17 PM UTC

jrnichols wrote: post #312

ceejayoz wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Trump signed a few bills recently, and while they weren't his administration's bill in the first place This is a bizarre statement. If he's signing the bill, his administration - and him specifically - is explicitly endorsing it. That's the whole point of the thing.

I don't think it's a bizarre statement to note that a few of the bills that he has signed did not originate with the Trump administration itself.

He is responsible for what he signs, regardless of origination. He has the option to not sign if he objects to one; it's entirely fair to criticize him for signing a particular bill into law even if it originated somewhere else.