Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#311

Post by curiousDog » Mon, Sep 24, 2018, 1:33 AM UTC

jacksmith21006 wrote: post #204

JoshMnem wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These days I distrust almost every move Google makes by default, and I imagine there is a growing number of people like me. Google has lost its way, not just with this, but with AMP/Chrome/URLs, and their impending destruction of one of the great achievements of modern technology -- the decentralized, open WWW. The Web was always under attack but to see the fatal blows delivered by Google is very depressing. I've a…

Google has not lost their way. They walked away from billions in China when the government tried to hack Gmail accounts. Google made it so ALL people can afford a smartphone not just the rich like Apple. Apple on the other hand https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/03/apple-privacy... Campaign targets Apple over privacy betrayal for Chinese iCloud ...

They did it for a reason -- to sell ads. If they truly wanted it so people could afford it, they'd not be making billions of profits each year. They give you things for free at the cost of your privacy. Apple otoh is upfront about it.

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#312

Post by candiodari » Mon, Sep 24, 2018, 9:36 AM UTC

wrs wrote: post #21

Ouch. It must be really fun for Googlers to hear their company is working so hard to repress dissidents trying to reveal its secret project to help China repress dissidents.

Could we discuss at least a little bit that this culture of "I must not be blamed" is toxic ?

Companies must sometimes choose between pest and cholera. Having search in China would let millions of Chinese citizens improve themselves a LOT. It would make Chinese censorship a lot harder as well. It would have pretty damn good effects. A billion people would get access to a LOT of information they don't currently have access to.

And it would collaborate with a criminal regime. You can criticize that ... evil !

Not doing it, while less criticizeable, would imho be more evil.

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#313

Post by chooseaname » Mon, Sep 24, 2018, 7:42 PM UTC

jhayward wrote: post #151

chooseaname wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I turn off downloading images by default. They'll have to work harder to know if I read my email.

At one time gmail went ahead and fetched the images anyway, but didn't display them. The tracking still could record the "open event" although it didn't get a hit directly from the user's browser, rather through Google's image cache server. I don't know if that's still the case.

> At one time gmail went ahead and fetched the images anyway, but didn't display them.

SMH. I read things like this and I really just hope the internet implodes one day.

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#314

Post by sincerely » Tue, Sep 25, 2018, 3:13 AM UTC

aonwoajdndj wrote: post #238

sincerely wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The downside to trying is being knowingly complicit in human rights abuse lol

I hope I am not too cynical. I think this type of thinking leads to confusing the symptoms for the underlying problem. Ask yourself, are we complicit in human rights abuse? We all pay our taxes right? Where do our taxes go? Dictators propped up globally. How many dissidents were tortured and executed with the aid of our intelligence agencies? What about the ongoing Israeli human rights abuses -- illegal occupation an…

I have similar feelings sometimes but I am conflicted on the topic. Would you be interested in a discussion on this topic?

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#315

Post by AnthonyMouse » Wed, Sep 26, 2018, 3:55 AM UTC

krn wrote: post #307

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A company in the software business charges for the usage of its software (Windows, Bing API). A company in the data business gives the software for free, and monetizes the data it collects about its users (Android, Google). A services API isn't software. You're not buying a copy of the code and running it on your computer. And Google offers the same category of thing (paid services), e.g. the Google Maps API or G S…

> A services API isn't software. You're not buying a copy of the code and running it on your computer. It's called SaaS, which stands for "Software as a service"[1]. > They're direct competitors operating in largely the same markets and using the same business models. Google generates 84% of its revenues from ads[2], Microsoft generates 95% of its revenues from software[3]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_…

> It's called SaaS, which stands for "Software as a service"

In other words, you're not buying a copy of the code and running it on your computer. So the provider has all your private information.

And if that's "software" then how is Google not a "software" company? All their services are that.

> Google generates 84% of its revenues from ads[2], Microsoft generates 95% of its revenues from software[3].

It's understandable that you missed this, but the distinction you're making is arbitrary. Microsoft can book ad revenue under software and service categories because the software/service is what generated the ad views. They definitely make more than 5% of their revenue from ads.

Percentages are also useless in general. If Google merged with Amazon (which has much higher revenue) then most of their revenue wouldn't be from "advertising" but how would that change their incentives at all? If anything it would be worse -- now they're providing more non-advertising services to you and have the incentive to spy on you via those services to increase their ad profitability.