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Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

theintercept.com

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Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#201

Post by snr »

JoshMnem wrote: post #34

> "The Dragonfly memo reveals that a prototype of the censored search engine was being developed as an app for both Android and iOS devices, and would force users to sign in so they could use the service. The memo confirms, as The Intercept first reported last week, that users’ searches would be associated with their personal phone number. The memo adds that Chinese users’ movements would also be stored, along with t…

>"The new version of Chrome signs you into the browser even if you don't want to sign into the software itself"

Damn. I just realized that. Signing out of browser signs you out of GMail. And signing into GMail signs you into the browser. Went to download Edge but turns out it's not on Win Server. MSFT really needs to get its act together.

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#202

Post by jacksmith21006 »

angersock wrote: post #60
tomlu wrote: post #43

Disclaimer: I work for Google. I also think that there is an anti-Google bias on hacker news, holding Google to a standard not applied to others and taking any excuse to roll out the same old tired rants in response to almost any Google post (DAE Google Reader etc). If what I read is true then this is the first thing that has truly rocked my confidence that the company generally tries to do the right thing (while mak…

> If what I read is true then this is the first thing that has truly rocked my confidence that the company generally tries to do the right thing Officially removing "Don't be evil" wasn't enough of a hint for you?

[dead]

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#203

Post by cromwellian »

IBM wrote: post #107
bduerst wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Apple moved their keys to be stored locally on state-owned servers, meaning that Apple has given the Chinese government access to Chinese user data. Apple even updated their TOS for it.

Not according to Apple [1]: >Apple says the joint venture does not mean that China has any kind of “backdoor” into user data and that Apple alone – not its Chinese partner – will control the encryption keys. [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-apple-icloud-insigh...

China goes so far as to require Android users to install a surveillance app in some provinces (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jingwang_Weishi) so you think the Chinese government would really allow the sale of unbreakable end to end encryption domestically just because it's Apple?

What would be the point then, as anyone wanting to avoid Chinese surveillance could just buy an iPhone. They wouldn't go through huge, immense trouble rolling out a massive surveillance apparatus on this domestic internet only to allow the world's most popular phone to be sold domestically as a simple circumvention.

No, Apple obviously made a deal as they are totally dependent on China for manufacturing their phone as well, they have no leverage. The difference is, Apple's culture of secrecy seems to prevent their employees from leaking dissent externally, so whatever they did, the details aren't public.

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#204

Post by jacksmith21006 »

JoshMnem wrote: post #29
mtgx wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that is part of the reason why Microsoft has been hated/less trusted than Google for so long (and still is). Google is making a very big mistake ruining this image and supposedly core principles with the actions it's been taking in the past couple of years. They won't recover for decades from this, just like Microsoft still hasn't fully. Google's "Don't be evil" has been a huge branding asset, but it seems Google…

> These days I distrust almost every move Google makes by default, and I imagine there is a growing number of people like me. Google has lost its way, not just with this, but with AMP/Chrome/URLs, and their impending destruction of one of the great achievements of modern technology -- the decentralized, open WWW. The Web was always under attack but to see the fatal blows delivered by Google is very depressing. I've a…

Google has not lost their way. They walked away from billions in China when the government tried to hack Gmail accounts. Google made it so ALL people can afford a smartphone not just the rich like Apple.

Apple on the other hand

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/03/apple-privacy... Campaign targets Apple over privacy betrayal for Chinese iCloud ...

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#205

Post by roenxi »

whatshisface wrote: post #59
reaperducer wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also think that there is an anti-Google bias on hacker news I think you are correct. But I don't think it's people being anti-Google because it's Google, or tribalism, or whatever. It's people being anti-bad things, and Google has evolved into a bad thing.

A bias is defined as an unfair leaning towards one opinion regardless of stimulus. If you're saying that Google is being evaluated fairly, you are disagreeing with the parent's claim that HN is biased.

HN isn't biased, but it is an interesting example of collective hypocrisy without any individual changing their mind.

Google is and always has been a privacy disaster waiting to happen, and we know lack of privacy and bad government are a potentially lethal (in the strictest and most literal sense!).

Historically, there has been a strong pro-Google bias in the tech sector that ignores this, possibly because of all the cool technical work they do. Still exists in my opinion, I've talked to techies who don't seem to realise that Google is an advertising company.

The current process is all the pro-technical-coolness people going quiet and all the pro-privacy people speaking up because Google has started to make poor decisions.

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#206

Post by snr »

quickben wrote: post #124
tomlu wrote: post #43

Disclaimer: I work for Google. I also think that there is an anti-Google bias on hacker news, holding Google to a standard not applied to others and taking any excuse to roll out the same old tired rants in response to almost any Google post (DAE Google Reader etc). If what I read is true then this is the first thing that has truly rocked my confidence that the company generally tries to do the right thing (while mak…

"I also think that there is an anti-Google bias on hacker news". Nah mate. When a company isn't paying me, I am unrestrictedly free to be objective. The problem, with companies (and with mafia, etc) starts once you take the money. So, from that perspective, what you read from most of us, is more objective than anything you read on your internal mailing lists. We, unlike your HR, don't care about morale, perception an…

"The problem, with companies (and with mafia, etc) starts once you take the money."

So true!

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#207

Post by Sephr »

d4l3k wrote: post #13
jaclaz wrote: post #10

>Emails demanding deletion of the memo contained “pixel trackers” that notified human resource managers when their messages had been read, recipients determined. This seems like the worst part (not that the rest is not bad), anyone has an idea of what this "pixel trackers" are and how they actually work?

Pixel trackers are just small embedded images in the email that when they are fetched from a server, the server logs it. Pretty simple way to track whether or not someone has opened an email. It's my understanding that gmail however downloads all images and then serves them from Google servers to avoid this issue entirely. Traditional email clients like Outlook/Thunderbird are susceptible to this kind of attack. That…

All Google does is proxy the images to hide your IP address. The images are proxied on-read so read receipts are still being leaked.

A Google employee has confirmed to me that they tested killing email read receipts but it was shelved as it broke too many partner integrations.

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#208

Post by [deleted] »

crunchlibrarian wrote: post #52
jaclaz wrote: post #10

>Emails demanding deletion of the memo contained “pixel trackers” that notified human resource managers when their messages had been read, recipients determined. This seems like the worst part (not that the rest is not bad), anyone has an idea of what this "pixel trackers" are and how they actually work?

The hypocrisy of Google embedding pixel trackers to monitor their own employees while forbidding external images in their gmail service to prevent companies trying to abuse users with pixel trackers is painfully blatant. Do as I say, but my company is super special so we'll just do whatever we feel like.

[deleted]

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#210

Post by JoshMnem »

18pfsmt wrote: post #192
JoshMnem wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chromium has many of the same problems as Chrome. I don't think Google can be trusted to not abuse their position any more.

Have you looked at this project? https://github.com/Eloston/ungoogled-chromium

I've seen it, but Chromium is fundamentally a Google product and it still has some of Chrome's problems. If we want future generations to experience technology freedom, we should avoid monocultures.
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