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Leap: An Online Community for Women

blog.ycombinator.com

311–320 of 364 posts

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#311
post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you please not post unsubstantive comments? It's not always clear why a post gets downvoted, but going on like this is always off topic.

Is that why my parent comment has been subsequently flagged? Though my second comment was not substantive, I don't see what is outrageous or controversial about what I had said prior to that. It does not violate any part of the guidelines.

That was because users flagged it, which makes it harder to say exactly why.

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#312

Honest question, does HN feel unwelcoming or uncomfortable for women? In particular: “I’ve found that some conversations online escalate to shouting matches quickly” do female HN users identify this with HN? Not saying Leap shouldn’t exist or anything, I’m just wondering if HN has these particular issues that I haven’t personally recognised.

I'm a guy, and it becomes very clear just how aggressive and debate-based male-majority communities are after spending some time in communities with a large percentage of women. There's seemingly no joy or "chill" at all — just a constant clash of ideas and ideologies. Not to mention the relentless sarcasm, snark, and snippiness, if not outright mockery. It's very rare to see someone say they're sorry or to change th…

>There's seemingly no joy or "chill" at all — just a constant clash of ideas and ideologies.

Conflict is ultimately what drives all innovation.

(note: I don't mean physical conflict.)

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#313
post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a guy, and it becomes very clear just how aggressive and debate-based male-majority communities are after spending some time in communities with a large percentage of women. There's seemingly no joy or "chill" at all — just a constant clash of ideas and ideologies. Not to mention the relentless sarcasm, snark, and snippiness, if not outright mockery. It's very rare to see someone say they're sorry or to change th…

>There's seemingly no joy or "chill" at all — just a constant clash of ideas and ideologies. Conflict is ultimately what drives all innovation. (note: I don't mean physical conflict.)

[deleted]

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#314
post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a guy, and it becomes very clear just how aggressive and debate-based male-majority communities are after spending some time in communities with a large percentage of women. There's seemingly no joy or "chill" at all — just a constant clash of ideas and ideologies. Not to mention the relentless sarcasm, snark, and snippiness, if not outright mockery. It's very rare to see someone say they're sorry or to change th…

>There's seemingly no joy or "chill" at all — just a constant clash of ideas and ideologies. Conflict is ultimately what drives all innovation. (note: I don't mean physical conflict.)

Sure — competition is good for innovation on the corporate or industrial level. But as far as individuals are concerned, I've seen far more interesting and innovative content come from supportive and friendly communities than from tech forums full of shouty dudes.

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#315

Honest question, does HN feel unwelcoming or uncomfortable for women? In particular: “I’ve found that some conversations online escalate to shouting matches quickly” do female HN users identify this with HN? Not saying Leap shouldn’t exist or anything, I’m just wondering if HN has these particular issues that I haven’t personally recognised.

I'm not a woman so I'm not going to try and address what women do or don't feel about HN but I just want to say: >“I’ve found that some conversations online escalate to shouting matches quickly” How many people can find a group of people IN GENERAL (online/offline/anywhere) that doesn't rapidly devolve into power/politics/passive & active aggressive behavior? Go spend some time on a forum like metafilter where you ha…

>In my opinion Leap is a wonderful innovation. It will help lots of people realize being an asshole does not know gender.

I've posted on lots of non-anonymous internet forums/communities since the mid 90s, when I first started reading and posting on usenet while still in grade school. Something Awful in particular stands out, because moderation there (bans and suspensions) were primarily handled by women in the mid-2000s (Ozma, Icequeen, Fistgrrl), and they were just as abusive and toxic as the male admins and mods that came before them, if not more so.

I think internet communities in general just attract certain kinds of people who seek out drama and conflict, and you'll never be able to avoid them completely despite exclusive membership. Even if you turn the majority of them away at the gate, or ban most of the ones that manage to slip by, some will be able to blend in and inevitably end up rising to positions of power, because seeking out and then abusing that power is simply their nature.

Even more so for exclusive communities, which, in my opinion, always end up with its members developing a feeling of superiority to those who are not a part of the group. The community itself will splinter into its own subgroups as well.

I think it's a mistake to assume that the current quality of discourse on Leap (and its utility as an app/service) is primarily due to the fact that men are not allowed to read or post. I would theorize that Leap's current success as a platform primarily comes from the fact that most (all?) of it's current users are closely networked to each other, since it's grown through direct invites and word-of-mouth between people who have direct relationships with each other. They are mentally and emotionally healthy working professionals who have vetted each other through their relationships, whether professional or otherwise. I have no doubt that the quality of content and contributions would not be negatively impacted if the same level of selectiveness and scrutiny was applied to vetting male members.

Now that invites are being opened, people who aren't part of this pre-existing network will be allowed in, and potentially outnumber the current/original community members. There will be conflict, not just for things like moderation power and the ability to control and influence discussions, but also because some people just like conflict for its own sake.

Based on what I've seen in private Facebook groups and on Twitter, I don't think that tying a personal identity to a forums account is adequate once you have lots of people who don't actually know each other.

The most successful community I've been a part of has extremely lax moderation on its main forums, an anonymous forum that is completely unmoderated (with the exceptions of guessing the identities of others and posting illegal stuff) where users can go blow off steam so they don't shit up the main boards, and then a "Serious" forum where trolling and shitposting are absolutely not allowed, and moderation is very strict.

If I were going to make an internet community, I would follow a similar approach, because when you need to enforce strict moderation at all times, you will eventually reach a point where you need to delegate that responsibility to people who enjoy moderating a community for the sake of power (if you don't want to pay them).

If you enjoy moderation to the point of pleasure and don't think that you'll ever get sick of it, then you can actively shape policy and staff throughout the community's lifecycle, but if not, you'll ultimately just want to throw your hands up in the air and walk away in disgust, and that's the point where you potentially lose control over your community and its direction.

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#316
post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marriage creates a legal protection between partners which as far as I know is stronger than the employer/employee relationship, so the company is rational to be uncomfortable with such situations in competitive situations where court is plausible. Part of the big money game is playing by more restricted rules.

Sure, but finding partners at work is fine.

[deleted]

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#317
post #294
post #63

What problem is this intended to solve that isn't solved by moderation policies and forum culture? I ask because I think this is a cool project, but there is also the inescapable fact that at some point men and women will have to work together in engineering environments, and we still have a dearth of environments that foster those interactions.

Do communities need to justify their existence by reference to some problem that they solve?

No, but this community is expressly designed to address a problem and it's cool to hear creators talk about the why of their work.

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#318
post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclaimer: not in any way attempting to diminish your experience. Only adding my own, to broaden the conversation. It can be a similar experience for men (although it's definitely not something talked about). I've had a female coworker walk up behind me repeatedly and give me unsolicited back rubs and ask me if I wanted to go to an empty office. I've been flirted with and hit on repeatedly. I've had a group of women…

It's not "broadening" the conversation. What you're doing is recentering the conversation as a "Men are victims of women too!" As a rhetorical device, it's so common it has a name. It's called "derailing".

I didn't read it as an attempt to derail or recenter anything, just as another data point. But i also don't agree that we are in a position to just refer to harassment as 'people treating each other badly' or whatever, given that in a situation where a person is being sexually harassed, the harasser is overwhelmingly likely to be male.

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#319

I am a bit triggered. This segregation stuff does not make sense to me, it almost feels like prison rules - keep genders/races away from each other because if they interact it will probably be violent. I wondered what would happen if I created a community where the core culture was set by women, and the software and product decisions were also made by women -> This also seems strange to me and counterproductive. If w…

Creating a community is not the same as replacing society. There will always be a multitude of different communities in a society.

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#320
post #290

This is smart, natural, and a good use of tech. I hope your community succeeds.

I agree. Male only entities are also smart and natural, and if tech based are a good use of that tech, right?

Sure, if someone identifies a need for one? Even better, if you see an opportunity going missing in the market due to the lack of said entity, why not start one up?
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