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How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

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Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#311

Post by rawnlq »

patio11 wrote: post #293
kleiba wrote: post #57

To this day, I'm still not quite clear about what a consultant actually does. I mean, beyond some vague idea ("goes to some company, talks with people, gives some recommendation"). I'd really love for someone to give some example or describe in a tangible way what the work of a consultant entails, what skills one typically needs and actually employs, what a typical gig looks like from beginning to end and so on. If a…

My modal engagement was with a SaaS company with $20 million a year sales, a few dozen employees, and 1~3 very strapped people wearing the marketing hat. “How much email do you send?” “We have a newsletter.” “What else?” “Welcome to free trial email. “What else?” “Nothing.” I write proposal. You should: 1) Have a pre-sales drip campaign positioned as a “free course about X delivered over email” w/ 8 emails arriving o…

Making the company money is the not the only factor is it? Any engineer at google/facebook/etc are probabilistically making the company multiple millions per year too (terrible estimate from revenue divided by headcount). But probably only a handful of them would ever be able to demand the rate you charge because they are replaceable.

How do you make sure the company won't just take your advice and hire a guy to do this for 90k/yr instead of letting you work on it for three weeks?

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#312

Post by epicide »

mbrameld wrote: post #86
kleiba wrote: post #57

To this day, I'm still not quite clear about what a consultant actually does. I mean, beyond some vague idea ("goes to some company, talks with people, gives some recommendation"). I'd really love for someone to give some example or describe in a tangible way what the work of a consultant entails, what skills one typically needs and actually employs, what a typical gig looks like from beginning to end and so on. If a…

I think a consultant in this context means a programmer with valuable experience in a particular domain. In Patrick's case it's sales funnel optimization. I do a lot of fisheries data work. The work done is usually based around a deliverable, and that can be anything from a written recommendation to a turn-key, green field system. You're a contractor with some specialized experience that somebody values more highly t…

This exactly describes my position as a software consultant.

> can be anything from a written recommendation to a turn-key, green field system.

Sometimes, we are there:

- to propose a set of tools or architecture.

- to migrate legacy systems.

- as staff aug (AKA "butts in seats").

- to do green field development.

Usually, it's some combination.

> contractor with some specialized experience that somebody values more highly than software development alone.

At least in our group, we definitely distinguish ourselves as different from contractors. At our core, we can do the contract work (and often do), but we also help out with the business side of things. Basically, we are contractors who know how to interface the technical side of things with the core business.

Oftentimes, we end up at a client who knows they want to build a system to help them do a thing, but that's step 10. They might know steps 1-3, but need our help figuring out and accomplishing steps 4-7 (e.g. defining actual requirements, organizing a good dev team, etc.).

EDIT: formatting.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#313

Post by epicide »

blhack wrote: post #144
putnam wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can a consultant do any kind/type of work?

Yes. "Consultant" seems to be essentially synonymous with "contractor" or "freelancer". They come in to do a specific job, then leave.

I am a consultant and yet distinct from a contractor or a freelancer.

I am not a freelancer because I work for a larger company.

I am not a contractor because, while that is a good chunk of what I do, I provide more than just software development. Oftentimes, I end up working with clients to actually determine what they need and how to build it. Then I help build it. Contractors typically just build it.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#314

Post by perl4ever »

roel_v wrote: post #223
ivanhoe wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO it's a mistake to focus on his particular fees, that's what he managed to make for himself. You need to find your own realistic path. For instance I, living outside of US, will probably never be able to charge $100+ hour my clients, I'm fully aware of that. But no matter who you are, you probably still can push for a little bit more, and that's where Patrick's advices are solid. Often, it's just a matter of askin…

If you're in Europe and a programming consultant, you can (and should) charge usd100 and more. Like, double, or triple. Edit: actually, first thing you need to do is stop charging by the hour, and charge by the day, or better, by the week.

When I was an employee, I knew my company's clients were charged $150/hr for my work. I also knew my company was switching to offshore workers so they could pay $5/hr.

Based on my past experiences, I'm not sure making lots of money is my goal, but I have the nagging feeling that it should be possible, just because it was no secret that people will pay that.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#315

Post by rev_bird »

danenania wrote: post #178
iends wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are entrepreneurs that are starting their business really a niche that pays well? Seems like it wouldn't be. Seems like you get either "build me the next facebook for $500" or a lot of small business with a total budget of $5000.

In general, you're right, but there's a sub-niche of entrepreneurs who are either independently wealthy or have easy access to capital that keep all the MVP-building agencies and consultants afloat.

I can't imagine how much work it would be to sift through all the other "ideas people" who need an app next week and then they'll pay you once the cash starts rolling in.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#316

Post by opencl »

infinity0 wrote: post #71
scrimpton wrote: post #26

This is by a wide margin the most bourgeois shit I've heard on here apart from the constant cryptocurrency posts. "Make disgusting amounts of money by doing nothing instead of your actual job!"

I think there's lots of useful things to learn from the article, though I do agree that this: > A necessary collorary to this: the principals of a technical consultancy do very well for themselves. I don't know if that is a secret but it certainly isn't well appreciated: nobody says Occupy Boutique Rails Consultancies, but the principals of them do end up in the 1%. is not great for society and I'm highly skeptical t…

>unclear how best to achieve the same level of efficiency whilst simultaneously not allowing the principals the power to centralise reward to themselves as well

Everyone does literally the exact same thing but you add profit sharing to the consultancy. As the article said "Clients Pay For Value, Not For Time." Unless the principals are somehow actually providing the overwhelming share of the value rather than the people doing the work.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#317

Post by perl4ever »

chrishacken wrote: post #296
yequalsx wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an extreme counter example can a person with an IQ or 50 do it? Clearly not. So not everyone can. There’s a range of abilities and personality types. I suspect the number of people with the ability/personality type necessary for $10,000 a week gig is much less than you imply.

Personalities are built; you're not born an introvert. Anyone can be built into a leader; go join the Marine Corps if you don't believe me.

You can't teach any arbitrary thing (nor temperament) to any arbitrary person. For a specific example, consider: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teichm%C3%BCller_space

I can say that not only would I never get anywhere with math at that level, but some of the related mathematical pages on Wikipedia surpass my ability to even tell if they are real or the work of cranks.

For any random person, there are things they can't do or learn because of the way they're made, any more than a cow can do calculus.

What's deceptive is that people constantly tell you that you must believe in yourself. But the reason isn't that believing in yourself is sufficient for success - the reason is believing in yourself is necessary to succeed so everyone who is successful attributes their success to that.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#318

Post by harry8 »

aurelianito wrote: post #247

If you charge by week, how do you keep your consulting pipeline full? Do you engage in contract negotiations while working for someone else?

By the week of work performed, not by the calendar. This is 3 weeks work. It starts Tuesday and will conclude mid February.

or yes, take an hour out of your work day for non-client stuff, and work an hour longer so it is not at your client's expense.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#319

Post by ThomPete »

putnam wrote: post #167
ThomPete wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No we are two looking to hire 4 more. Have freelancers do some of the work until we find the right people. My first agency was 80 in its peak, but its just too much people handling imo.

Did you start the first agency? What was its niche?

I started both yes and in its time it was niche (but expanded into much more traditional type company). We were focused on web-app and product design (started in 2005) when everyone was focusing on web design.

Did a ton of projects for Adobe and their Lighthouse division who were pushing their flex platform back then.

This time we are focusing on something quite different but again in an area with few people who can offer what we do but who still are used to paying for consultants.

We get great clients but they get someone who is very experienced and know a lot of the typical pitfalls.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#320

Post by noahc »

hashkb wrote: post #95
iends wrote: post #84

One of the problems I've always had with patio11's advice is that the skills he brought to a job was something that could easily be measured, e.g. he mainly did sales funnel optimization so it was easy to see the before and after of the direct impact on the bottom line. As somebody who is a skilled backend developer the value I provide is not as measurable. How can I justify charging a large weekly rate, when almost…

I used to be a "skilled backend programmer" but now I "help entrepreneurs start their businesses." See the difference?

Is this typically 5k to 20k engagements over a period of 2 to six weeks?
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