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How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

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Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#311

Post by sirtaj »

imjustsaying wrote: post #309
sirtaj wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I went to Australia I was surprised at the number of people from my ethnic background who had immigrated as adults and would complain bitterly about taxes. They loved the safety and security, general standard of education, healthcare, amenities, infrastructure, opportunities and their secondary effects (well-educated employees for their businesses, people who showed up to work instead of being home sick and so o…

>They just couldn't connect with the idea that taxes might be the reason that these were available. If taxes are the source of safety, security, general standard of education, healthcare, amenities, infrastructure, opportunities and their secondary effects, let's make taxes 100% of income, so that we can get more than twice as much of all that. Right?

Where have I suggested 100% taxation? What point are you making, please be clear.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#312

Post by geon »

cyansmoker wrote: post #310
dmingoddd wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I love the command line and want to remind people how it was back in the days when they didn't have these GUIs. Everyone will have to give up the GUI! Its a legitimate cause! : )

Hello. This is the ministry of bad analogies. Your fine is ready.

You should just tax it instead.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#313

Post by imjustsaying »

sirtaj wrote: post #311
imjustsaying wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They just couldn't connect with the idea that taxes might be the reason that these were available. If taxes are the source of safety, security, general standard of education, healthcare, amenities, infrastructure, opportunities and their secondary effects, let's make taxes 100% of income, so that we can get more than twice as much of all that. Right?

Where have I suggested 100% taxation? What point are you making, please be clear.

You didn't, I was mistaken.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#314

Post by sbuttgereit »

wpietri wrote: post #195
sbuttgereit wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair question and I dislike this sort of thing as much as anyone. And of course such an opening comment means there is a "but..." coming. What you're asking for is to criminalize certain petitions of government. So how do you choose whom to discriminate against such that they cannot petition their government in regards to law making without, at the same time, simply institutionalizing the viewpoints of the other side…

I think "only solution" is far too strong. It seems to me there are two sorts of lobbying: positive sum informing of legislators, and zero/negative sum jockeying for societal advantage. We want to keep the former and minimize the latter. So my proposal is: 1. Make all paid lobbying illegal. Make corporate donations to candidates, campaigns, and parties illegal. Eliminate revolving doors. Strongly limit individual don…

I am writing a second reply to you because this is a new thought and only something I just remembered which seems to not be covered by your proposal.

I was involved with a startup in the past several years where one of the people in the startup had a relative that was an official in a federal bureaucracy. The startup was in an area which was tangential to the regulatory authority of that bureaucracy, but relied on third parties which definitely were under that authority. The relative, it was reported, made it clear that if we thought that the third parties were acting in a less than compliant fashion towards us, thus hindering us, we should let them know so they could make it right. I expect our colleague made a bigger deal of how connected they were with us than may have been warranted, but the implication was clear: I'm connected and can pull strings if someone gets in our way.

Now of course a company reporting a regulatory problem they're having with another company isn't underhanded, no matter the connections... but I have a hunch that having the contact within the establishment would have helped that claim move up in the line or be taken more seriously than a claim coming in without the proper introductions (if you will). I don't expect the relative gave our colleague the yellow-pages number (yeah, I'm old) to make such a report, just in case, if you know what I mean.

But the key here is that this didn't even involve a politician. Rent-seeking in a highly regulated environment doesn't even have to come through the politicians. It can be made through the appointed and career officials that create and enforce the regulations mandated by legislators. This is especially true today when so much of law is simply and vaguely mandating the creation of categories of regulation rather than actually specifying what is law and what it is not.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#315

Post by hackuser »

MarkMc wrote: post #297
hackuser wrote: post #94

A tangential issue: It seems almost impossible to me that the systems of tax preparation services, whether cloud-based, local software, or offline, are secure. The standard of security is, make the target more expensive to breach than it's worth to the attacker. How much would it be worth to have access to the tax returns of large swaths of the population? I don't know the answer, but I'm guessing it's easily worth b…

I am a developer of accounting software and this is exactly the problem I faced when developing the cloud-based version of my accounting software. My solution was to keep all financial data on the server encrypted. The server is unable to decrypt any financial data because the crypto key is either (a) derived from the user's password; or (b) located on an offline device to allow customer support staff to reset passwo…

I wouldn't use it without end-to-end encryption, and I probably wouldn't trust your implementation of encryption (no offense, but probably you can't be a wizard at both financial software and encryption software) unless you used some proven third-party solution. And even then ... I would just keep the data local and encrypted. Why do I need to put it in the cloud?

However, I'm a tiny market of 1, and I and the HN crowd are not representative. While I'd love it if you designed your solution specifically for me, it probably wouldn't be good for your revenues (for good software, I'll pay $100/yr!).

People put their financial information online all the time, using QuickBooks, tax software, Mint, etc. Most have no idea what end-to-end encryption means, but if you tell them it's more secure I imagine they will like that. As an 'influencer', I might be more likely to recommend it (with the caveats in the first paragraph).

Is there some liability involved? What if there is a breach and their data is stolen? What if you tell them it's encrypted, there's an exploit, and your claim on which they depended turns out to be false?

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#316

Post by Waterluvian »

krisroadruck wrote: post #218
rayiner wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would anyone oppose a simple system like this? Because you want to make people angry and upset at least once a year at the government? Because you want to remind people that taxes are something the government takes, instead of letting them think of taxes as money they never earned to begin with. I love paying my taxes, but if you think taxes are bad (and lots of people do), then the current U.S. system makes to…

You... love paying taxes?

I take great pride in paying taxes. It's such a good deal when I look at what it would cost to be American.

I'm not trying to rag on being American. But I've got close ties with the U.S. so often I compare what a life event would have been like, had I been a typical U.S. family of my economic class.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#317

Post by millstone »

School-Cotton wrote: post #238
foota wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The United States has a complicated tax code because it attempts to make things more "fair" for some people. Some of these are things people like, such as deductions for people with children, paying mortage, etc. Some are more dubious.

Why is it fair to give a deduction for mortgage? Buying a home instead of renting is just choosing to invest in real estate instead of anything else you might invest in. Why artificially subsidize one extremely illiquid and volatile type of investment?

If I buy real estate as an investment, I can deduct the mortgage like any business loan. Why artificially penalize owners who want to live in their properties over owners who don't?

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#318

Post by Hermel »

chasing wrote: post #234
krisroadruck wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You... love paying taxes?

Yes. I love paying taxes. Not because I like having less money in my bank account, but because I understand what paying taxes represents.

In what country are you paying taxes? And is your tax rate above or below 30%?

Based on anecdotal evidence, I think that people paying more than 30% rarely ever "love" paying taxes. Below that, it seems to feel much more ok (I'm also below 30% and - while I'm not enthusiastic about paying taxes - it feels like a fair deal).

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#319

Post by orodley »

rayiner wrote: post #215
xupybd wrote: post #97

I live in New Zealand. I don't have to file taxes if my income is a standard wage my tax payments are automatic. My employer deducts them from my wage and they are sent to the IRD (Our government tax dept). My student loan and super payments are also automatic. If there is anything wrong then at the end of the tax year I can file to correct things. I also get donations rebates, this is a one page form that lists all…

> Why would anyone oppose a simple system like this? Because you want to make people angry and upset at least once a year at the government? Because you want to remind people that taxes are something the government takes, instead of letting them think of taxes as money they never earned to begin with. I love paying my taxes, but if you think taxes are bad (and lots of people do), then the current U.S. system makes to…

Income tax is still very visible in NZ. On your payslip it lists the before-tax value, and then deductions for PAYE, student loan payments, etc. Plus wages/salary are still expressed as a before-tax rate, so you can see the disparity there too.

I get the argument, but whether or not I /want/ to pay taxes, I still have to, so why make it inconvenient? The NZ government finds plenty of other ways to make me angry and upset anyway.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#320

Post by jkeat »

curun1r wrote: post #168
stult wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the point of the article at all, nor of Intuit's lobbying. Even with the current complexity of the tax code, the IRS could easily auto file your taxes for you if your income is below a certain very high level and you do not have any special complications. Such a system would work for 98% of Americans. This has nothing to do with what deductions are available or whatever complexity they introduce into the s…

Intuit's lobbying isn't limited to opposing return-free filing. They also lobby to keep the tax code at a certain level of complexity that puts the most Americans in the sweet spot between too complex to feel comfortable using software and too simple to need software. FWIW, the reason that Intuit believes that return-free filing is a bad idea is that they believe that you need someone who advocates for the biggest re…

Just curious, could you elaborate on your opposing view?
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