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How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

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Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#301

Post by sbuttgereit »

gech wrote: post #269
sbuttgereit wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So questions to your proposal: 1) You make corporate political donations illegal, but that's pretty specific to a single class of interest group. What about those that regularly act in opposition to corporate interests, such as unions, environment groups, consumer groups? Your point 2 seems to imply they would be included, but why are you specific here as to the prohibition? Or do you propose to treat different assoc…

If we thought up all the bad things that would happen we wouldn't act at all

Uh, ok... so what's your point caller?

Both sides of this thread have suggested actions, albeit competing actions. Rational discussion of competing ideas involves discussing the positives, negatives, motivating ideals, and the validity of the ideas on the table. Not discussing or raising issues evades reality and doesn't do anything to diffuse or give answer to that reality. Simply put, if we're going to do something I rather do it with eyes wide open, understanding the downsides, rather than mimic one of those "hold my beer..." memes.

And... notwithstanding the debate at hand, perhaps we shouldn't act if acting actually makes matters worse or drives bad behavior further underground. Significant thought in the climate change debate and the environmental movements is spent on thinking up all the bad things that will happen if we continue to act as an industrial society. Is your admonishment for them, or do you pick and choose who can argue as is convenient? One might say... that's my problem with the person whose proposal I was responding to... they seemed to want to pick and chose who could say what and when.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#302

Post by smsm42 »

mortehu wrote: post #201
jjeaff wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's almost that simple in the US if your situation is that simple. What happens in NZ if you make $400 selling vintage cabbage patch dolls on eBay? What if you earned $1k in returns on your investment account? What if you are renting your place out on Airbnb? If all you have is a simple income in the US, then the 1040ez is a single page and you can file it for free online if you make under a certain amount. You can…

In practice, the difference between US and other countries is still pretty big. In US, about 60 percent of individual tax returns are filed by a professional tax preparer, at every income level. People who owe no income tax still have to file tax returns to receive tax credits. In many other modern countries, _the_majority_ of the tax payers file no tax returns at all.

60 percent? That's kinda high. Maybe force of habit, since I don't believe 60% of returns need a tax professional. TurboTax or analogous software probably can do most of the middle class returns. That's what tax preparers are use most of the time anyway - they just ask proper questions, get the docs, put them into software in the right places and file the result. May save some time, and knowing where to put the numbers requires some knowledge, so no problem with that, but I doubt it really needs that and can't be done by a good software.

> _the_majority_ of the tax payers file no tax returns at all.

I think there's a confusion here. Maybe several. First of all, in US filers and payers are not the same, as you may pay federal taxes (e.g. by deductions) and still not have to file (e.g. low income). Second, there are state taxes, which most countries don't have. Third, many countries just don't have the tax return as a thing - if you got something deducted, it's gone, good luck getting anything back. In US, you get stuff back for mortgage interest, state taxes, property taxes, charity donations, etc. etc. - you can get quite a decent amount of money back. I think it's better than just sending it over and getting nothing back, even if it could mean a bit more work.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#303

Post by sirtaj »

imjustsaying wrote: post #229
rayiner wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an immigrant. I consider it a blessing to be able to do so.

I'm an immigrant. I consider it robbery to be intimidated by force into paying taxes.

When I went to Australia I was surprised at the number of people from my ethnic background who had immigrated as adults and would complain bitterly about taxes. They loved the safety and security, general standard of education, healthcare, amenities, infrastructure, opportunities and their secondary effects (well-educated employees for their businesses, people who showed up to work instead of being home sick and so on). They just couldn't connect with the idea that taxes might be the reason that these were available.

It would guess it's a pretty common thread among people who grew up unused to a properly functioning government.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#304

Post by imjustsaying »

abduhl wrote: post #230
imjustsaying wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an immigrant. I consider it robbery to be intimidated by force into paying taxes.

Not to be rude but why'd you immigrate then? It's not like taxes just started happening recently.

I apologize for the confusion. I didn't immigrate to California.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_taxation#Individ...

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#305

Post by WaxProlix »

laughfactory wrote: post #284
Aeolun wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You also consider it a right to drive on roads?

Roads are the go-to argument for the value of taxes. But it's a dumb point to make because there are a ton of programs which we fund but do not benefit from. In fact, the vast majority of every dollar we pay in taxes does absolutely nothing to benefit us directly. No one argues against true infrastructure investments, it's all the other b.s. that we hate (immigrants and non-immigrants alike). Being a dick to someone…

> Being a dick to someone for seeing

How unabashedly self-centered! It's adorable.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#306

Post by imjustsaying »

M_Grey wrote: post #251
imjustsaying wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an immigrant. I consider it robbery to be intimidated by force into paying taxes.

You were forced to immigrate to this country?! Otherwise... the "force" part here is more like, "I was forced to pay for the meal I decided to eat at the restaurant! How dare they!" Don't like it? Don't eat.

>You were forced to immigrate to this country?!

I should clarify that I didn't immigrate to California, but was an immigrant to elsewhere. I apologize for the confusion.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#307

Post by dmingoddd »

rayiner wrote: post #215
xupybd wrote: post #97

I live in New Zealand. I don't have to file taxes if my income is a standard wage my tax payments are automatic. My employer deducts them from my wage and they are sent to the IRD (Our government tax dept). My student loan and super payments are also automatic. If there is anything wrong then at the end of the tax year I can file to correct things. I also get donations rebates, this is a one page form that lists all…

> Why would anyone oppose a simple system like this? Because you want to make people angry and upset at least once a year at the government? Because you want to remind people that taxes are something the government takes, instead of letting them think of taxes as money they never earned to begin with. I love paying my taxes, but if you think taxes are bad (and lots of people do), then the current U.S. system makes to…

Yes, I love the command line and want to remind people how it was back in the days when they didn't have these GUIs. Everyone will have to give up the GUI! Its a legitimate cause! : )

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#308

Post by PhaseLockk »

smsm42 wrote: post #296
abduhl wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to be rude but why'd you immigrate then? It's not like taxes just started happening recently.

Maybe because in real world the choice is between fixed alternatives and not imaginary scenarios? Even if you think US taxes are way too high and immoral, it's not like you can live in a country like US but without taxes. You can live in a country much worse than the US with taxes, or in US with taxes, or in a country with failed government where there are not taxes but instead people might just kill you on the stree…

Maybe there's a correlation for a reason? Namely that functional governments which keep the peace and provide services to their citizens need income in order to operate.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#309

Post by imjustsaying »

sirtaj wrote: post #303
imjustsaying wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an immigrant. I consider it robbery to be intimidated by force into paying taxes.

When I went to Australia I was surprised at the number of people from my ethnic background who had immigrated as adults and would complain bitterly about taxes. They loved the safety and security, general standard of education, healthcare, amenities, infrastructure, opportunities and their secondary effects (well-educated employees for their businesses, people who showed up to work instead of being home sick and so o…

>They just couldn't connect with the idea that taxes might be the reason that these were available.

If taxes are the source of safety, security, general standard of education, healthcare, amenities, infrastructure, opportunities and their secondary effects, let's make taxes 100% of income, so that we can get more than twice as much of all that.

Right?

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#310

Post by cyansmoker »

dmingoddd wrote: post #307
rayiner wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would anyone oppose a simple system like this? Because you want to make people angry and upset at least once a year at the government? Because you want to remind people that taxes are something the government takes, instead of letting them think of taxes as money they never earned to begin with. I love paying my taxes, but if you think taxes are bad (and lots of people do), then the current U.S. system makes to…

Yes, I love the command line and want to remind people how it was back in the days when they didn't have these GUIs. Everyone will have to give up the GUI! Its a legitimate cause! : )

Hello. This is the ministry of bad analogies. Your fine is ready.
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