Earlier quoted context omitted.
I suppose we have fundamentally different utility functions. I think it is valuable to society to have a class of (relatively) well-off creators who do that as their full-time job. Some of these creators will even start off making mediocre works that don't contribute much, as they move from peripheral authentic participation towards the center (or drop out and get a "real job"). If you don't see that as a valuable te…
Is your utility function such that you believe these content creators ought to make good money regardless of whether there are people willing to pay for the content they create?
We Can’t Let John Deere Destroy the Idea of Ownership
301–310 of 405 posts
Re: We Can’t Let John Deere Destroy the Idea of Ownership
#302Earlier quoted context omitted.
I feel like the term "lease" isn't appropriate unless there is a viable way and underlying plan to eventually return it. When I lease I car, I have to return it. They don't sell me the car under the auspices of a lease, with no way to ever return it, and still restrict my rights on what I can do with it.
Given enough time, software eventually becomes unsupported, and then -- perhaps after more time, but perhaps not -- unusable. In effect, this is the return at the end of the auto lease. It's not a perfect analogy (really nothing ever is), but it's pretty good, especially I think for people not used to thinking about this issue with software and other digital goods.
Re: We Can’t Let John Deere Destroy the Idea of Ownership
#303Earlier quoted context omitted.
Stallman understands better than most the true nature of wealth and power. Concentrated wealth (in the hands of either individuals or corporations) becomes obsessed with maintaining the concentration of wealth. The most straight-forward way to do this is to never actually sell anything, but rather to collect rent on it. However, the right to collect rent is a legal right that must be enforced by the state (or by forc…
> Stallman's focus on copyright law and intellectual property law Channeling Stallman here, there's no such thing as "intellectual property law". There are a bunch of laws that work in very different ways, evolved under different circumstances, and have different purposes. Copyrights are for ensuring authors retain economic and/or moral rights on their work, patents are so that inventors will disclose their invention…
Re: We Can’t Let John Deere Destroy the Idea of Ownership
#304Earlier quoted context omitted.
>(Someone who works for nothing is the definition of a slave.) I could go and lick the grass on my porch. I won't get paid for that. No matter how much I would like it. Many things are just not profitable. Unless you find other models, like patronizing
>Unless you find other models, like patronizing Patronizing like - https://www.patreon.com/ - or patronizing like, "offensively condescending" [1]. Based on context, I'm assuming the former, but patronizing is a auto-antonym, so it should be clarified [2]. [1] https://www.wordnik.com/words/patronizing [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto-antonym
Re: We Can’t Let John Deere Destroy the Idea of Ownership
#305Earlier quoted context omitted.
That is a ridiculous argument. The more content we produce, the more quality and diversity you can get in the corpus that you will read; the more choices that you can make. There might be infinite insight in the contemplation of cat pictures. :) Or from another angle: why don't we destroy half of the content of the world? Surely we have enough with the remainings. If we were to find tomorrow another intelligent speci…
Yes, more content adds more value. But past a certain point of saturation, it no longer adds enough additional value to compensate its creators. My argument is that we are long past that point. Which would be more valuable, doubling the world's content, or doubling the amount of time and money to spend on it?
Let's say we cut "literary production" in half somehow. Is it better if everyone writes a little bit, or if we all pay someone who's really good at it to do it? I'd rather read a professional writer than my own ramblings, which means I'd rather a subset of good writers were able to earn a living off it.
Re: We Can’t Let John Deere Destroy the Idea of Ownership
#306Earlier quoted context omitted.
> As soon as books become computer files, you don't buy them anymore, you lease usage rights... When will it stop? I don't want it to stop - I think it's a good thing. By making a book impossible to pass from one person to another, the publisher is able to extract an income that is closer to the total benefit people derive from reading the book. In short: authors make more money. And so more books will be written, an…
publisher is able to extract an income that is closer to the total benefit people derive from reading the book. In short: authors make more money These two statements are not logically connected. Price is controlled by supply and demand. If publishers are able to make more money from scarcity of books, it does not follow that authors are able to get more money unless there is also a scarcity of authors and a surplus…
Re: We Can’t Let John Deere Destroy the Idea of Ownership
#307Earlier quoted context omitted.
>(Someone who works for nothing is the definition of a slave.) I could go and lick the grass on my porch. I won't get paid for that. No matter how much I would like it. Many things are just not profitable. Unless you find other models, like patronizing
If an activity (particularly one like writing books) creates value for people and yet somehow people engaged in that activity can't get paid, that might deserve a closer look than "many things are just not profitable." Or a better comparison than to a hypothetical personally recreative activity like licking grass.
And makes you think if it would or should go the same way of other non profitable but socially valuable activities, by the hands of non profit foundations and/or government support.
And if that would be a better or worse model than the current one.
Re: We Can’t Let John Deere Destroy the Idea of Ownership
#308Richard Stallman spent the last 30 years telling us this would happen. As soon as books become computer files, you don't buy them anymore, you lease usage rights. As soon as tractors contain computer code, you don't own them anymore, you are granted a license to use them. When will it stop? More and more everyday objects are incorporating software and firmware in many different forms. I remember reading Stallman's sh…
Re: We Can’t Let John Deere Destroy the Idea of Ownership
#309Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is getting meta and no longer directly responsive to the article, which I don't wholly disagree with. A tractor and a book are different situations. Books are hard to copy, while files are easy to copy. Writers have to get paid, and people are cheap and don't want to pay them... even while they will pay the same for a fancy cup of coffee. Hence a scramble for some way to set up a toll booth that is hard to circu…
>In his world, the creators of things starve. How so? The entirety of human history has shown us that we create no matter what. Art, music, tools, stories, technology, etc. Creators have been making (and eating) for eons, well before modern IP laws. Look at the patron model, or commission based production, used for centuries. Or look at creation during leisure time for leisure (and its close modern cousin, large port…
Here's a better idea: look at the actual work produced under this model. With a few notable exceptions, it's an endless parade of flattering portraits of rich people, glorified depictions the wars they won, politically slanted historic fictions used to justify their authority, and scenes from the religious stories they used to instill terror and obedience in the people they dominated ruthlessly.
In other words, if you actually understood what you were talking about, you'd know that art produced under the model you describe existed - above all - to project and protect the power of the people who paid for it. The beauty of the copyright systems is that it provided the first real break from a brutal and largely impoverished world in which a tiny handful of rich, powerful individuals (and the institutions they controlled) maintained exclusive control over what did and didn't get made.
Seriously, what else have you got? A compelling case for a return to the divine right of kings? Maybe you could defend the Church's Index of Banned Books while you're at it? Or remind us why burning witches was maybe a good thing after all?
Protip, dude: don't use history to support your arguments if you don't know the first thing about the history you're citing. The system defined by contemporary IP law is far from perfect, but the idea that it's worse that what it replaced is completely insane. Further progress means adapting IP law to the realities of the 21st Century, not saying "Screw it, let's just revert to what worked for the ruling class in 16th."
Re: We Can’t Let John Deere Destroy the Idea of Ownership
#310In a particularly spectacular display of corporate delusion, John Deere—the world’s largest agricultural machinery maker —told the Copyright Office that farmers don’t own their tractors. Because computer code snakes through the DNA of modern tractors, farmers receive “an implied license for the life of the vehicle to operate the vehicle.” It’s John Deere’s tractor, folks. You’re just driving it. I don't have any symp…
>Generally, tie-in sales provisions are not allowed. Such a provision would require a purchaser of the warranted product to buy an item or service from a particular company to use with the warranted product in order to be eligible to receive a remedy under the warranty. The following are examples of prohibited tie-in sales provisions.[1]
Regardless of how the DMCA arguments play out, at least the automakers will have difficulties moving forward as there is a long fought battle over not releasing service information on in-car computer and diagnostic information to third-party repair service provides. There hasn't been legislation over the issue because automakers volunteered to release information on service and tools required to service in car computer systems.[2] It would most likely be easy to build a legal case against an auto company that required you to take your warrantied car to a franchised dealership for warrantied replacement of a defective circuit board. So in a not too hard to imagine hypothetical scenario where a bug in the car's cam timing software cause mechanical failure, but the auto manufacturer refuses to sell the replacement part (replacement software) or tools required to perform service to third-party service providers because of software licensing, would that not fall under Magnuson-Moss Act if the repair would be warrantied?
[1]https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/bus...
[2]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_Vehicle_Owners'_Right_to_...
[edit] spelling/format