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1.5 Million Missing Black Men

nytimes.com

301–310 of 375 posts

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#301
post #108
post #20

I'm a Black Man. Growing up there was a realization that being alive and out of trouble over the age of 21 was an accomplishment. This would extend to middle class. Due to a history of American apartheid, there were often just a few degrees of separation between middle class and working/poor class kin.

In the US we had segregation, not apartheid. There is a difference. As a white man living in the South, we still have segregation in practice. I rarely had interaction with blacks because they did different things and took different classes at school. We all went to the same schools---just didn't have the same classes or have the same social circles. Not much shared in the way of culture. I have had some black friend…

Actually, the segregation is a bit more sinister than just because they "did different things", although perhaps you don't realise this because you're white.

Back in the mid 90s my wife's family wasn't allowed to stay in the nice part of a motel somewhere in the South. They had to stay in the slightly crappy "black" block of the motel. The irony is that all the cars parked in front of the shitty "black" block of the motel were expensive ones. Also they're not even black, they're Asian. Apparently every business in that part of the town had de-facto segregation like this.

I'm curious if it's still like that. I've seen on recent TV documentaries (e.g. Louis Theroux) that there is still a hell of a lot of racism down there, so I imagine things haven't changed very much for the better.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#302
post #108
post #20

I'm a Black Man. Growing up there was a realization that being alive and out of trouble over the age of 21 was an accomplishment. This would extend to middle class. Due to a history of American apartheid, there were often just a few degrees of separation between middle class and working/poor class kin.

In the US we had segregation, not apartheid. There is a difference. As a white man living in the South, we still have segregation in practice. I rarely had interaction with blacks because they did different things and took different classes at school. We all went to the same schools---just didn't have the same classes or have the same social circles. Not much shared in the way of culture. I have had some black friend…

What the South had for much of the 20th century was much closer to apartheid. Blacks were not allowed to vote, for example, or to exercise generally protected rights that whites had, such as the right to assemble and petition the government for redress of grievances. In a merely segregated situation, different races would be prevented from mixing but treated by the government as equal citizens. That did not come close to happening: the various Southern governments did not even make a pretense of being neutral arbiters of segregation, but were quite openly White governments, acting as shamelessly violent partisans of the White population's interests.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a source on that? I haven't heard of any analysis on this front.

If you search "north dakota gender imbalance", you'll get a lot of narratives of it, but I can't point to statistical evidence. https://www.google.com/#q=north%20dakota%20gender%20imbalanc...

Thanks. Looks like most of the data is anecdotal at the moment but it's something to keep an eye on and see how/if it pans out. For the people involved.. I hope it's a blip and not a trend.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#304
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of reasons for this, perhaps even more important reasons, but yes, black women are unapprochable as a white man. While other people interpret my normal social awkwardness/aloofness as just what it is, black women tend to take offense and think it's racist. There's nothing I can do to change that aspect of myself. I don't know why this doesn't happen with black men, it just doesn't really seem to, thou…

Where are you approaching them? Have you even bothered trying, say, bars in black neighborhoods (I have) instead of palace where they're in the minority and in the defensive? Think about that for a second and ask yourself why not.

I'm not trying to approach them for dating.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#305
post #171
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In china where men outnumber women due to family preference for a male heir, it has resulted in straight men having to compete with each other on an economic status basis to attract women, what happens in north Dakota is not a universal phenomenon.

This is vastly overstated. Historically there are 1.05 male births per 1 female birth without any technical sex selection going on. Which for a population the size of China works out to an extra ~33 million men. Interestingly in the US and globally men of every age but ~10 years old die more frequently than men so older woman significantly out number older men. It's a fairly significant gap which is one of the reason…

China has a ratio of 112:100 men to women at birth due to gender selectivity. It's that women outlive men which brings things into 'balance' if you include all ages.

Never the less, you see increased bride imports from impoverished SEAsian neighbors. There is also great pressure on the males to show how meritorious and deserving they are economically, in 'attracting' a mate. I say attracting in quotes, because it's often more disproportionately economic than romantic attraction.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#306
post #297
post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would rank these middle eastern countries as the origin nationality of most jihadists. High: Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Syria, Palestine, Lebanon, Egypt (most members of the original Al-Qaeda and current leader were Egyptian, and then there are Sinai groups) Medium (mostly just financing since they have low populations and high income): United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Bahrain. Low: Turkey (?), Jordan, Kuwait, Om…

>These are obviously based on nationalities of jihadists, not based on percentages of populations whom become jihadists - which I suspect you are confusing my comment as implying. You asked why many Middle Eastern countries produce "so many" jihadists, implying that the majority of these countries are producing a high number. Thus, it makes no sense to respond by listing examples of terrorists or terrorist groups ori…

A quote from my comment above:

> I believe most people on HN are aware extremists represent a small percentage of the total populations.

I stand by my decision to assume that most people here are smart enough to know the difference. Key word is most people clearly...

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you've lost the thread. The problem I described as solved was "I can't get a date that matches my extremely specific qualifications". And yes, if that was my son's problem, I'd tell him to either lift and be awesome or accept being forever alone. As for requiring some specific experience to be a good parent, I find the idea a bit ridiculous. There are a variety of problems I haven't experienced and likely can…

Hmmm. Original article talks about the difficulty of black women finding partners of their own race for family formation. You observe that a solution to this has been legal since 1967 (obviously referring to Loving v. Virginia ) and that the potentially resulting babies are cute. I suggest that this is not such a simple issue, because the babies in question would still have to deal with structural racism later in lif…

I suggest that this is not such a simple issue, because the babies in question would still have to deal with structural racism later in life.

So would the children of two black parents. So no benefit there.

...and preferring someone of your own race is now an 'extremely specific qualification'...and you think I've lost the thread?

Given that 20% of the people who want this will be forever alone, yes it is.

The hypothetical problem I presented was 'Dad, quite a lot of people express hostility towards me on the basis that I'm black. Help me out.' as opposed to...

I'll remind you that you asked whether I would "Tell him that it's a solved problem" - recall that according to me, the solved problem is "I want to date a person satisfying $rare_condition but I can't find such people, so now I'm forever alone". Has nothing to do with third parties being unkind.

Also note: a black parent can't fix racism by third parties either. So again, no benefit to intra-racial marriage.

What I said was that you don't seem to have through through the sort of problems that your offspring would be likely to encounter; my thesis is that this lack of apparent concern...family formation...

I'm not quite sure why you come to the conclusion that either I or family oriented non-black men have not thought through some particular problem. Could you explain?

(My post is fairly agnostic on this issue, which is why my attempt at a charitable interpretation led me in the direction of shared experiences.)

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#308
post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you don't want it to be the case, but the answer really is "most of them". Exceptions would be Israel (if you consider Palestine separately), UAE, Kuwait.

Sources?

Fine, but learn to Google

http://www.dailypaul.com/327703/somewhat-disturbing-map-of-f...

http://www.rferl.org/contentinfographics/foreign-fighters-sy...

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#309
Many of us learned a short, sanitized history of human rights in school. The story tends to focus on progress. We once had Inquisitions and witch burnings, and then the Enlightenment put an end to that. We had slavery and Jim Crow, and then the Emancipation Proclamation and the Civil Rights movement fixed those.

The unspoken implication is that the problems are now solved. Schools teach children the injustices of history, but rarely talk about the injustice of the status quo. The message is that the evil is past, and that present authority is legitimate and benevolent.

So, what injustices will students learn about in 2100?

I think that today's mass incarceration, the war on drugs, and unequal education will be towards the top of the list. Students will learn how we once had 5% of the world's population, but 50% of the world's inmates. They'll learn how many of those inmates were in jail for nonviolent offenses, especially drug offenses. One of the root causes for the cycle of poverty, crime, and jail time is unequal education. It manifests in the many communities and schools that simply don't teach children the skills necessary to succeed or make a legitimate living. Students of the future will probably learn how some of the worst schools in the industrialized world in the early 21st century were sometimes a few miles away from the best, separated by a certain road or a set of train tracks. "Schools" with fifteen year olds that were barely literate, with armed police officers on staff, with metal detectors at the entrance.

Then, they'll learn how those injustices were fixed.

---

I'm sure at some point we'll shift from punishing the poor to trying harder to empower them--or at least empower their children--to live better.

What can we do today to be part of that?

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet another reason why a society only is as stable and wholesome as its average nuclear family unit.

Scandinavians have a very low rate of marriage and a high divorce rate, and yet are as stable and wholesome as you can imagine.

The key isn't the marriage rate, it's the prevalence of intact families. Scandinavians don't marry, but they do live together and raise children together. The prevalence of intact families (meaning children living with both biological parents) is higher in Scandinavia than it is in the US, even though the marriage rate is lower.
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