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Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

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Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#301

Post by sergiotapia »

mightybyte wrote: post #190
Someone1234 wrote: post #30

I've said it before and I'll say it again, unlimited days off (or "open") and zero days off are identical. If you have unlimited vacation people are inclined to take less and people respect the vacation you take less ("as you can always take more!"). Here's a study[0] (PDF) called "Overwhelmed America: Why Don’t We Use Our Earned Leave?" It is biased (travel association) but interesting nonetheless. According to this…

> According to this study[1] you need at least ten consecutive days of leave to "de-stress" from work. Short vacations aren't as effective as long ones. That can't be true across the board. I haven't taken a vacation in 3 or 4 years by that definition. And frankly, I feel fine. I work with awesome people solving cool problems and love what I do. I've had friends tell me I should take a vacation, and my response is, "…

Yikes, I burned out something fierce after a year of solid Mon-Fri 12 hours days - just started my awesome December vacation and I'm loving it. Starting 2015, I'm aiming for a 30 hour work week at most. I'm assuming you don't have a family?

Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#302

Post by jacques_chester »

justizin wrote: post #279
e40 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In CA, this is definitely not the case. A company must cut you a check on your final day that includes everything owed to you, including unused vacation days.

Or they can cut you a check that doesn't include everything owed to you, but ask you to sign a long agreement, buried within which is an assertion that the company has paid everything it owes you. Since you need this check, you wouldn't get your vacation days. Anyway, while I agree with the red flag concern, I don't necessarily agree that companies have unlimited vacation in order to cause you to take less. Esp in th…

> Or they can cut you a check that doesn't include everything owed to you, but ask you to sign a long agreement, buried within which is an assertion that the company has paid everything it owes you.

You can write any old thing you like and get someone to sign it.

That doesn't necessarily mean it's enforceable.

Writing unenforceable clauses into fine print -- that you know are unenforceable -- is a legal bluff older than keeping records on clay tablets.

Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#303

Post by jacques_chester »

superuser2 wrote: post #296

Mandatory vacation is not only a good idea, it is a security feature. When one employee takes over another's "world" within the company, it is very likely that they will notice if the employee on vacation has been embezzling, defrauding customers, etc. In the financial industry, this is not only good practice, it is a regulatory requirement. People who do not want to take vacation are seen by auditors as highly suspi…

I think pairing with frequent rotations is going to be more effective, but most shops don't practice pairing.

Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#304

Post by e40 »

justizin wrote: post #279
e40 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In CA, this is definitely not the case. A company must cut you a check on your final day that includes everything owed to you, including unused vacation days.

Or they can cut you a check that doesn't include everything owed to you, but ask you to sign a long agreement, buried within which is an assertion that the company has paid everything it owes you. Since you need this check, you wouldn't get your vacation days. Anyway, while I agree with the red flag concern, I don't necessarily agree that companies have unlimited vacation in order to cause you to take less. Esp in th…

If you don't sign that agreement, then they need to pay you what they owe you. That's the law.

Usually the way this works is they give you severance, which comes at a price: you won't sue them for any reason whatsoever.

Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#305

Post by jacalata »

encoderer wrote: post #112
Someone1234 wrote: post #30

I've said it before and I'll say it again, unlimited days off (or "open") and zero days off are identical. If you have unlimited vacation people are inclined to take less and people respect the vacation you take less ("as you can always take more!"). Here's a study[0] (PDF) called "Overwhelmed America: Why Don’t We Use Our Earned Leave?" It is biased (travel association) but interesting nonetheless. According to this…

At Trulia we have an unlimited vacation policy and it really does work for us. People routinely take extended, foreign trips of two or more weeks. This year I will be taking 4 weeks off in total, 2 on proper vacation and one week each with my family and my wife's. So take this as an anecdotal data point. Oh, and come work for Trulia, we need great iOS and Android engineers desperately.

Is that likely to change since Zillow doesn't have that policy? They did just buy you guys, right?

Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#306

Post by wahnfrieden »

johnward wrote: post #124
wahnfrieden wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's expected that you don't abuse the policy. While what constitutes abuse may be a line that needs elaboration, making your standard work week 2-3 days under this policy is not a gray area.

Which is exactly why these policies suck. It's "unlimited" but it's implied that you don't take too many days. It's like the comcast of vacation policies.

That's what the minimum days you must take is for. If the company culture is right, it's a liberating policy. At my new job now it feels like I'm spending a precious commodity instead of booking vacation feeling like reprieve due in the wake of hard work or payoff.

Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#307

Post by jacalata »

rudolf0 wrote: post #290
zelos wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's pretty crazy. Do many companies actually tend to provide maternity leave as a benefit? It makes a bit of a joke of gender equality in the workplace, IMHO.

Many companies do provide maternity leave, many (but fewer) also provide paternity leave, but companies below a certain size are not federally required to provide either (though I believe there are some arrangements where you can take unpaid maternity leave but legally can't be fired during your maternity leave).

It sounds like you're thinking of the Family Medical Leave Act, which doesn't apply to everyone.

Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#308

Post by austinz »

Someone1234 wrote: post #30

I've said it before and I'll say it again, unlimited days off (or "open") and zero days off are identical. If you have unlimited vacation people are inclined to take less and people respect the vacation you take less ("as you can always take more!"). Here's a study[0] (PDF) called "Overwhelmed America: Why Don’t We Use Our Earned Leave?" It is biased (travel association) but interesting nonetheless. According to this…

Having X number of days off for vacation per year is an explicit contract. Company culture can still be broken enough to not allow you to use those days, but in most cases the expectation is that the vacation days you've been given are yours to use to the fullest (making reasonable accommodation for scheduling, etc).

"Unlimited" vacation is an implicit contract. You can take off as many days as is considered acceptable by the company or team culture. This number is not something you can know before you start your job, and it is something that can change as workplace culture evolves.

The "unlimited" part is also a load of bosh. If the company culture isn't completely sick nobody is going to begrudge you using up your X vacation days per year. But if you take more vacation than average at a place with "unlimited" vacation you run the risk of looking bad and suffering attendant consequences. (I hate that "looking bad" is even a thing apart from actual effectiveness, but unfortunately it's something we still have to worry about...)

Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#309

Post by dragonwriter »

mightybyte wrote: post #190
Someone1234 wrote: post #30

I've said it before and I'll say it again, unlimited days off (or "open") and zero days off are identical. If you have unlimited vacation people are inclined to take less and people respect the vacation you take less ("as you can always take more!"). Here's a study[0] (PDF) called "Overwhelmed America: Why Don’t We Use Our Earned Leave?" It is biased (travel association) but interesting nonetheless. According to this…

> According to this study[1] you need at least ten consecutive days of leave to "de-stress" from work. Short vacations aren't as effective as long ones. That can't be true across the board. I haven't taken a vacation in 3 or 4 years by that definition. And frankly, I feel fine. I work with awesome people solving cool problems and love what I do. I've had friends tell me I should take a vacation, and my response is, "…

> That can't be true across the board. I haven't taken a vacation in 3 or 4 years by that definition. And frankly, I feel fine.

How do you know you don't feel much less fine than you would with an otherwise-similar job and occasional 10 day leaves? Being accustomed to something as normal doesn't mean that it doesn't make you feel substantially worse than you would in some other situation.

Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#310

Post by GFischer »

delluminatus wrote: post #71
GFischer wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, here in Uruguay, you have to take 10 days minimum, at least twice a year. Plus you get close to a week off a few times a year (Easter and Carnival). So a week is nothing special here :) It has a silver lining: it forces the company to plan for backups and make processes more explicit.

Color me envious. I currently get 10 paid vacation days total per year.

You won't stay envious for long if you get my paycheck :P .

I'm currently considering a move to the U.S. (the grass is always greener on the other side).

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