Earlier quoted context omitted.
Im not talking about this being the "best maze solver" and "better at solving mazes than humans". Im saying the model is "intelligent enough" to solve a maze. And what Im really saying is that we need to stop moving the goal post on what "intelligence" is for these models, and start moving the goal post on what "intelligence" actually _is_. The models are giving us an existential crisis on not only what it might mean…
> Im saying the model is "intelligent enough" to solve a maze. And I don't agree. I think that at best the model is "intelligent enough to use a tool that can solve mazes" (which is an entirely different thing) and at worst it is no different than a circus horse that "can do math". Being able to repeat more tricks and being able to select which trick to execute based on the expected reward is not a measure of intelli…
Gemini 3 Pro: the frontier of vision AI
301–309 of 309 posts
Re: Gemini 3 Pro: the frontier of vision AI
#302Earlier quoted context omitted.
I actually did this prompt and found that it worked with a single nudge on a followup prompt. My first shot got me a wine glass that was almost full but not quite. I told it I wanted it full to the top - another drop would overflow. The second shot was perfectly full.
did it return the exact same glass and surrounding imagery, just with more wine?
Re: Gemini 3 Pro: the frontier of vision AI
#303Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Im saying the model is "intelligent enough" to solve a maze. And I don't agree. I think that at best the model is "intelligent enough to use a tool that can solve mazes" (which is an entirely different thing) and at worst it is no different than a circus horse that "can do math". Being able to repeat more tricks and being able to select which trick to execute based on the expected reward is not a measure of intelli…
I would encourage you to read the code it produced. Its not like a simple "solve maze" function. There are plenty of "smart" choices in there to achieve the goal given my very vague instructions, and as a result of it analyzing why it failed at first and then adjusting.
Where you are seeing "intelligence" and "an existential crisis", I see "a huge pattern-matching system with an ever increasing vocabulary".
LLM's are useful. They will certainly cause a lot of disruption of automation on all types of white-collar work. They will definitely lead to all sorts of economic and social disruptions (good and bad). I'm definitely not ignoring them as just another fad... but none of that depends on LLMs being "intelligent" in any way.
Re: Gemini 3 Pro: the frontier of vision AI
#304I do some electrical drafting work for construction and throw basic tasks at LLMs. I gave it a shitty harness and it almost 1 shotted laying out outlets in a room based on a shitty pdf. I think if I gave it better control it could do a huge portion of my coworkers jobs very soon
I just can't imagine we are close to letting LLMs do electrical work. What I notice that I don't see talked about much is how "steerable" the output is. I think this is a big reason 1 shots are used as examples. Once you get past 1 shots, so much of the output is dependent on the context the previous prompts have created. Instead of 1 shots , try something that requires 3 different prompts on a subject with uncertain…
The main task of existing tools is rule-based checks and flagging errors for attention (like a compiler), because there is simply too much for a human to think about. The rules are based on physics and manufacturing constraints--precise known quantities--leading to output accuracy which can be verified up to 100%. The output is a known-functioning solution and/or simulation (unless the tool is flawed).
Most of these design tools include auto-design (chips)/auto-routing (PCBs) features, but they are notoriously poor due to being too heavily rule-based. Similar to the Photoshop "Content Aware Fill" feature (released 15 years ago!), where the algorithm tries to fill in a selection by guessing values based on the pixels surrounding it. It can work exceptionally well, until it doesn't, due to lacking correct context, at which point the work needs to be done manually (by someone knowledgeable).
"Hallucinogenic" or diffusion-based AI (LLM) algorithms do not readily learn or repeat procedures with high accuracy, but instead look at the problem holistically, much like a human; weights of neural nets almost light up with possible solutions. Any rules are loose, context-based, interconnected, often invisible, and all based on experience.
LLM tools as features on the design-side could be very promising, as existing rule-based algorithms could be integrated in the design-loop feedback to ground them in reality and reiterate the context. Combined with the precise rule-based checking and excellent quality training data, it provides a very promising path, and more so than tasks in most fields as the final output can still be rule-checked with existing algorithms.
In the near-future I expect basic designs can be created with minimal knowledge. EEs and electrical designer "experts" will only be needed to design and manufacture the tools, to verify designs, and to implement complex/critical projects.
In a sane world, this knowledge-barrier drop should encourage and grow the entire field, as worldwide costs for new systems and upgrades decreases. It has the potential to boost global standards of living. We shouldn't have to be worrying about losing jobs, nor weighing up extortionately priced tools vs. selling our data.
Re: Gemini 3 Pro: the frontier of vision AI
#305Earlier quoted context omitted.
And just like that, you no longer have a good benchmark. Scrapers / AI developers will read this comment, and add 5-legged dogs to LLM's training data.
So much this. People don't realize that when 1 trillion (10 trillion, 100 trillion, whatever comes next) is at stake, there are no limits what these people will do to get them. I will be very surprised if there are not at least several groups or companies scraping these "smart" and snarky comments to find weird edge cases that they can train on, turn into demo and then sell as improvement. Hell, they would've done it…
Re: Gemini 3 Pro: the frontier of vision AI
#306Well It is the first model to get partial-credit on an LLM image test I have. Which is counting the legs of a dog. Specifically, a dog with 5 legs. This is a wild test, because LLMs get really pushy and insistent that the dog only has 4 legs. In fact GPT5 wrote an edge detection script to see where "golden dog feet" met "bright green grass" to prove to me that there were only 4 legs. The script found 5, and GPT-5 the…
Re: Gemini 3 Pro: the frontier of vision AI
#307Earlier quoted context omitted.
>They belong in different categories Categories of _what_, exactly? What word would you use to describe this "kind" of which LLMs and humans are two very different "categories"? I simply chose the word "cognition". I think you're getting hung up on semantics here a bit more than is reasonable.
This is "category" in the sense of Gilbert Ryle's category error. A logical type or a specific conceptual classification dictated by the rules of language and logic. This is exactly getting hung up on the precise semantic meaning of the words being used. The lack of precision is going to have huge consequences with this large of bets on the idea that we have "intelligent" machines that "think" or have "cognition" whe…
No, it's not. This is like me saying "string and float are two types of variables" and you going "what is a 'type' even??? Bertrand Russell said some bullshit and that means I'm right and you suck!"
Re: Gemini 3 Pro: the frontier of vision AI
#308Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is "category" in the sense of Gilbert Ryle's category error. A logical type or a specific conceptual classification dictated by the rules of language and logic. This is exactly getting hung up on the precise semantic meaning of the words being used. The lack of precision is going to have huge consequences with this large of bets on the idea that we have "intelligent" machines that "think" or have "cognition" whe…
>It is the loose equivalent of asking why are you getting hung up on the type of a variable in a programming language? A float or a string? Who cares if it works? No, it's not. This is like me saying "string and float are two types of variables" and you going "what is a 'type' even??? Bertrand Russell said some bullshit and that means I'm right and you suck!"
Cognition is a term from psychology, not statistics, if we are applying type theory, cognition would be a (none-pure) function term which take the atom term stimulus and maps them to another atom term behavior and involves states of types including knowledge, memory, attention, emotions, etc. In cognitive this is notated with S → R where S stands for stimulus, and R stands for response.
Attributing cognition to machine learning algorithms superficially takes this S → R function and replaces all state variables of cognition with weight matrices, at that point you are no longer talking about cognition. The S → R mapping of machine learning algorithms are most glaringly (apart from randomness) pure functions, during the S → R mapping of prompt to output nothing is stored in the long term memory of the algorithm, the attention is not shifted, the perception is not altered, no new knowledge is added, etc. Machine learning algorithms are simply just computing, and not learning.