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Framework Laptop 12 review

arstechnica.com

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Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#301

Post by sixothree »

username223 wrote: post #172
sixothree wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$1500 for 48 GB and 2 TB? Am I missing something here?

Yes, Apple screws you on SSDs, so that 2 TB adds a lot. If you need it, and don't want an external SSD (2 TB costs $150), the Framework is cheaper with a slower CPU. Maxing internal storage on a Mac laptop is a bad idea if cost matters to you. EDIT: I haven't felt the need to spec a programming laptop like that. 16/512 feels fast enough, and 32/512 would have room to bloat... er, I mean grow. But I don't use a local…

Can you even buy 256 GB SSDs any more?

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#302

Post by chrismorgan »

perching_aix wrote: post #72
cosmic_cheese wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah the focus really should be on multipliers. Is it a clean multiple of the typical “normal” DPI resolution for that screen size? You’ve got a great screen. No? It’s a compromise. Simple. 1.5x looks ok mostly (though fractional pixels can cause issues in a few circumstances), but across platforms nothing is handled as well as 2x, 3x, etc is. I have a 1.5x laptop and wish it were either 1x or 2x.

The appropriate display scaling multiplier for this screen is 200% (2x), which is exactly why I regarded it pretty much clearing even this bar. On Windows at least, you can only alter display scaling in 25% increments (this is also why application designers are requested to only feature display elements with pixel dimensions that are cleanly divisible by 4), and so the closest fit for this laptop's PPI will be exactl…

Nah, look at laptop norms for the last decade and it’s clearly targeting 1.5×, not 2×. Even more so given how small it is: you’ll aim for a lower scaling factor because otherwise you can’t fit anything on the screen.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#303

Post by nektro »

i run nixos on a framework 13 and it runs perfectly with all features working as i'd expect. running linux natively and knowing the good the company is doing good is priceless. will definitely be buying another someday.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#304

Post by tamirzb »

chrismorgan wrote: post #38
perching_aix wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but does that prevent them from making a (...) hi dpi (...) machine? It pretty much has that though? 1920x1200 at 12.2" is 185.59 PPI. Standard DPI (PPI) is 96. HiDPI to my knowledge isn't properly defined, but the usual convention is either double that or just more than that - the latter criteria this display definitely clears, and the former (192 PPI) is super super close, to the extent that I'd call it cleared f…

The baseline of 96ppi is nominal only. Form factor and intended distance from screen matters a lot. In the laptop form factor, you’re aiming for more like 110–125 as 1×. Apple laptops range from 221–254ppi as 2×. 186ppi is designed for 1.5×, an uncomfortable space that makes perfection difficult-to-impossible, yet seems to have become unreasonably popular, given how poorly everything but Windows tends to handle it. (…

I run my Framework 13 with 1.4 fractional scaling (on Wayland) and honestly I think it looks pretty good.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#305

Post by eddythompson80 »

kelnos wrote: post #288
linsomniac wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>in theory, you'd be keeping the same body, while swapping out the mainboard. I love the idea of Framework, but the upgradability seems questionable to me. I base this off my experience with desktops where I've rarely over the decades upgraded more than the hard drive and RAM. When I'm looking at upgrading the motherboard it seems I just end up going all the way and getting a new case/ps/etc at the same time. Maybe t…

Back when I had a desktop computer (almost 20 years ago!), I would usually keep the case and upgrade motherboard, CPU, RAM, video, etc. Unless the case was holding back something I really wanted to do (like have more drive bays or PCI slots), I'd see no reason to replace the case. In fact, a case upgrade would be independent of the component upgrades. I had a very janky, cheap case for the machine I built for college…

You were way over complicating the cheapest part of a build. A good keyboard, mouse and display cost way more than a case and I almost never upgrade those when upgrading a PC

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#306

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

nektro wrote: post #303

i run nixos on a framework 13 and it runs perfectly with all features working as i'd expect. running linux natively and knowing the good the company is doing good is priceless. will definitely be buying another someday.

Linux Mint, FW13, battery has a slow drain while off and dead most of times I go to use it.

It’s OK, but I’m not sure I would make the same selection today.

Their price is just too high.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#307

Post by MBCook »

adolph wrote: post #89
coder543 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The article shows a few charts where a Framework laptop is faster than M4 Air both in single and multicore CPU benchmarks. Every single chart in the article showed the M4 MacBook Air beating the Framework 12 by a large margin. I don't know what charts you were looking at.

I think the parent comment is referring to its parent's question "Is it unreasonable to think Framework should be able to make a laptop competitive with the 5 years old MacBook Air M1?" That the Framework 12 is not extremely lagging behind the M4 (subjective comparison) might lead one to believe that it would be competitive with an five year old M1 Air. Taking a quick look at "Cinebench R23" from 2020 [0], Macbook Ai…

Except the M1 Air has no fan and will be dead silent doing that.

The framework won’t.

Once you get used to an inaudible laptop you really don’t want to go back. There’s nothing wrong with a fan you literally can’t hear without putting your head up against the laptop.

I would do anything to get rid of the hairdryers in my life pretending to be laptops.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#308

Post by Arkhadia »

0000000000100 wrote: post #202

Our company bought about 4-5 Framework 13s, and boy were they a bad experience. All sorts of driver issues, random crashes, USB ports not working right, etc. Just about all of them had some kind of issue, which is really fun when your PM has a USB port not work randomly. Ended up going back to HP laptops, 30% cheaper for the same specs and they just work consistently. Would love to hear a hobbyist perspective, Framew…

[dead]

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#309

Post by MBCook »

throwaway63467 wrote: post #71
criddell wrote: post #14

Is it unreasonable to think Framework should be able to make a laptop competitive with the 5 years old MacBook Air M1? I get that Framework focuses on making repairable machines, but does that prevent them from making a fanless, hi dpi, good performing, long battery life machine? I wouldn’t expect parity with an M4 machine, but it doesn’t seem unreasonable to think they should be competitive with the much older M1. I…

Lenovo X9 Aura is pretty great. 80 Wh battery which gives you 6-10 hours of usage, 15’’ 120 Hz 3k OLED screen, new 3 nm Intel CPUs. Only half as fast as my M4 but less than one third the price, with an upgradable SSD and a customer-replaceable battery. My only gripes are the soldered 32 GB of RAM and that they only put one USB C connector on each side, otherwise a tremendously good machine for that price. I think it…

6-10 hours? That’s considered good in the PC world?

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#310

Post by eddythompson80 »

paxys wrote: post #227
linsomniac wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>in theory, you'd be keeping the same body, while swapping out the mainboard. I love the idea of Framework, but the upgradability seems questionable to me. I base this off my experience with desktops where I've rarely over the decades upgraded more than the hard drive and RAM. When I'm looking at upgrading the motherboard it seems I just end up going all the way and getting a new case/ps/etc at the same time. Maybe t…

You can't upgrade the hard drive or RAM on modern laptops either.

eh, while not fitting ragebait, plenty of Lenovos, Dells, and HPs have upgradable hard drives and not few have upgradable RAM and WiFi modules too. I'm writing this on a 2019 Lenovo P2 that I upgraded both the RAM and nvme on it.
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