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Pope Francis has died

reuters.com

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Re: Pope Francis has died

#301
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pope John Paul II was also extremely popular across the world.

JP2 was liked by catholics (the reasons are interesting and complicated enough that would warrant a long discussion). But Francis was generally well-liked even by the irreligious.

I know a few muslims that liked him. I believe he just seemed like a "good guy" who wanted to unify the world

Re: Pope Francis has died

#302

I will never forget his sympathy for the motives of the terrorists who massacred staff at Charlie Hebdo: “If my good friend Dr Gasparri says a curse word against my mother, he can expect a punch,” Francis said while pretending to throw a punch in his direction. He added: “It’s normal. You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others.” [0] [0] https://www.independen…

> You cannot insult the faith of others

Why not? The concept of proportionality between an “offense” and a response that characterizes the liberal worldview was entirely missing here. If one chooses to take offense about some deeply held personal view, whatever it is, then fine; but let your response be proportional.

The music of Beethoven is sacred to me, let’s say, but I’m not prepared to murder you if you mock it, or miss a note in performance.

The pope’s threat of physical intervention himself seems at odds with the teachings of his own faith, too, as I understand them. Turn the other cheek, and all. But that would be for adherents to say for sure.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#303
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pope John Paul II was also extremely popular across the world.

He was, but John Paul II was traditionally conservative. I think Francis resonated with more people–Christian or not–because he emphasized compassion, humility, and social justice. He spoke more openly about issues like poverty, climate change, and inclusion–his encyclical LAUDATO SI’ is a great read–, and he often used language and gestures that the "common man" could relate to. Perhaps the way he dressed so simply–…

There was an interview on NPR this morning with a high-level Jesuit in the Americas (former leader of the order in Canada and USA, IIRC).

He put it well... Pope Francis was always a pastor at heart. And he put the needs of the person in front of him ahead of strict doctrine. The interviewee likened it to triage in a field hospital - address the soul in front of you, worry about doctrine later (suture the wound, worry about cholesterol later).

Re: Pope Francis has died

#304

I will never forget his sympathy for the motives of the terrorists who massacred staff at Charlie Hebdo: “If my good friend Dr Gasparri says a curse word against my mother, he can expect a punch,” Francis said while pretending to throw a punch in his direction. He added: “It’s normal. You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others.” [0] [0] https://www.independen…

This checks out - he worked as a bouncer at a nightclub to put himself through seminary.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#305

I will never forget his sympathy for the motives of the terrorists who massacred staff at Charlie Hebdo: “If my good friend Dr Gasparri says a curse word against my mother, he can expect a punch,” Francis said while pretending to throw a punch in his direction. He added: “It’s normal. You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others.” [0] [0] https://www.independen…

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Re: Pope Francis has died

#306

I will never forget his sympathy for the motives of the terrorists who massacred staff at Charlie Hebdo: “If my good friend Dr Gasparri says a curse word against my mother, he can expect a punch,” Francis said while pretending to throw a punch in his direction. He added: “It’s normal. You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others.” [0] [0] https://www.independen…

Our leaders should not be normalizing or condoning responding to words with violence.

Such an attitude is abhorrent and shameful.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#308

I will never forget his sympathy for the motives of the terrorists who massacred staff at Charlie Hebdo: “If my good friend Dr Gasparri says a curse word against my mother, he can expect a punch,” Francis said while pretending to throw a punch in his direction. He added: “It’s normal. You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others.” [0] [0] https://www.independen…

> You cannot insult the faith of others Why not? The concept of proportionality between an “offense” and a response that characterizes the liberal worldview was entirely missing here. If one chooses to take offense about some deeply held personal view, whatever it is, then fine; but let your response be proportional. The music of Beethoven is sacred to me, let’s say, but I’m not prepared to murder you if you mock it,…

I didn’t hear from him any call-to-arms to defend Christianity from those who keep making fun of it left and right. Be it other religious faiths or quasi-religious political movements. His actions seemed the opposite tbh.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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No, Ukraine should not surrender because if they surrender now the same argument can be made next time - and with Russia there will always be a next time. This is an existential fight for Ukraine and Ukrainians.

Assuming that you are arguing in good faith you should read up on some basic game theory. The outcome of this fight is not just about this war but about establishing the incentives of all future potential attempts at aggression by Russia (and other expansionist countries).

Edited to remove the snark.

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