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Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

cbc.ca

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Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#301

Post by BunsanSpace »

mlekoszek wrote: post #23
newfocogi wrote: post #9

I hadn't heard that this was likely to happen. Any Canadians here able to weigh on whether this was expected or is a normal procedure for your elected officials?

Generally, governments in Canada are voted out in roughly 9-year intervals. Trudeau took office in 2015, so nothing unusual there. Moreover, Trudeau is exiting with approval ratings just a percent below his predecessor, Stephen Harper (22% vs. 23%, respectively). So, in a wider sense, this is not so unusual. But we're facing a trade war with the States and less-than-joking threats of annexation, so it's a bad moment…

This is the crux of the issue honestly. Trudeau should have had the humility to read the writing on the wall in the fall, and stepped down so we could have a stable government to deal with the incoming US administration and give his party a fighting chance next election.

He could have rested on his laurels knowing history would likely forget his shortcomings & scandals, and be remembered as the prime minister who got us legal weed, navigated the covid pandemic, brought clean drinking water to FN reserves and advanced social programs (childcare, dental care).

Instead he's likely going to be known as the prime minister who had to be forcibly walked to the door by Canadians and his party, while leaving the country in a precarious position during tumultuous times.

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#302

Post by lp0_on_fire »

busterarm wrote: post #168
c0redump wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

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“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.” - CS Lewis.

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#303

Post by micromacrofoot »

stretchwithme wrote: post #211
throw0101d wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> […] against the peaceful protestors. At some point they stopped being protestors and became occupiers. There is no Charter right to occupy—as the pro-Palestinian folks also learned [1] (which was simply re-iterating previous precedent, see perhaps [2]). [1] 2024 ONSC 3755 [2] 2011 ONSC 6862

At what point is that, legally? Did they attack anybody? Obstruct anyone's access to a building they had a right to access? Or does someone just need to declare that someone is an occupier?

yes, they prevented people from sleeping — I never understand why people don't consider this attack, after a couple of days it's borderline torture

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#304

Post by stainablesteel »

Tiktaalik wrote: post #285
0xbadc0de5 wrote: post #115

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lol this incredible hyperbole begs for explanation. The two main fumbles I can see of note are on housing and immigration. On immigration the government only made remarkable changes in the last two years, and as if they touched a hot stove, they already realized their mistake and have already scaled back immigration numbers so much that Canada will effectively have nil immigration for the near future. Not likely a ge…

canada got to the point that they can't turn off the immigration faucet, they need it for their economy to survive, but people have come to hate it so much that they can't maintain it, they're in for a collapse because of it

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#306

Post by adamc »

eastbound wrote: post #203
mass_and_energy wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YSK that the people who had their accounts frozen weren't simply protesting in Ottawa; they were blocking international borders to our largest trading partner, effectively holding our economy hostage. This absolutely constitutes behavior that's a danger to our nation so it makes sense to freeze the accounts of the people doing it. To be clear, there were many attempts to settle this without freezing people's bank acc…

> effectively holding our economy hostage This is what a protest is. (French here). If protesters go as far, and in Canada it was because you did them dirty, then you must sit at a table and negotiate. You must sit at a table and negotiate with everyone in a country. You cannot do someone dirty then complain that they protest. It’s effects removing the right to protest, and therefore, removing democracy itself. Go li…

Not a Canadian, but no, a protest protests and gives voice to the disagreement. Blocking other people's rights is not just a protest and is likely to trigger action to protect others. That's how it goes everywhere that has rights. Normally, some effort is made to do it peacefully, but there are no countries where you can halt the economy whenever you want to force people to negotiate with you.

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#307

Post by bryanlarsen »

BJones12 wrote: post #291
bryanlarsen wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada is definitely worse than it was ten years ago, but all of the major problems are provincial responsibilities: housing, health care, education, policing. The largely conservative provinces have done a very good job of blaming Trudeau and immigration for problems that are entirely their own.

> The largely conservative provinces have done a very good job of blaming Trudeau and immigration for problems that are entirely their own. No. Immigration reduces available housing. Immigration overloads the health care system. Immigration strains the education system. Immigration creates ethnic enclaves that are hard to police. Immigration is a federal responsibility. Trudeau and the Liberals are to blame.

Does immigration make these things worse? Yes. But it's only a very small part of the problem. You can't blame the entire problem on a minor cause.

Here's a very good 55 point plan to fix housing: https://www.ontario.ca/page/housing-affordability-task-force...

BC implemented far more of those points than Ontario has, and succeeded in changing Vancouver's housing costs from ~2X Toronto's to 1X Toronto's.

And P.S. the immigration surge was mostly in student visa's, driven by Colleges under provincial jurisdiction.

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#308

Post by gs17 »

dralley wrote: post #129
nindalf wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alaska got Ranked Choice Voting and after every election cycle where a Democrat wins they're up in arms about how it's bad. This time the repeal effort got within a whisker of succeeding, while the Democrat (Mary Peltola) lost her congressional seat. RCV encourages moderation, meaning candidates like Peltola and Senator Murkowski (R) win statewide office. This distresses people who feel like such moderates are very f…

Ranked choice isn't the only alternative voting system that encourages moderation. Approval voting is vastly simpler to understand and implement and also accomplishes many of the same benefits. Simplicity is an underrated value when it comes to elections. People are more likely to trust that which they can easily understand. And ranked choice, fairly or not tends to cause a lot of confusion.

Unfortunately, I rarely see people who hate IRV/RCV because they want it replaced with approval voting. Usually it's that their candidate/party of choice would fare worse under it.

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#309

Post by toasteros »

Dakizhu wrote: post #292
toasteros wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, because Canada is not "ruined" or "damaged". The ONE dreadful thing the Liberals did was to renege on their promise of electoral reform. All Westminster-style Parliaments are done a disservice by using First-past-the-post. Trudeau campaigned on replacing the system with proportional representation, but incumbents in Westminster governments will never change the system that made them win. Most people turn to the C…

What’s dreadful is the rising cost of living and lack of affordable housing, which he failed to address. Moreover he doubled immigration during a time when the average Canadian was struggling to keep up with rising expenses. I’m pro-immigration but not at an unsustainable rate. Housing construction was not keeping up. Trudeau pushed beyond the limits of pro-immigration policy. If it was just conservative propaganda,…

The immigration system we use today was set up by Harper. I'm an immigrant myself, having moved here on a Harper scheme, but under Trudeau.

You are absolutely right that this wasn't addressed by the current government, but it is a policy of the previous one. The only reason he alone is being blamed is because he happened to be in charge for a very long time.

It is likely to remain unaddressed satisfactorily under PP, too, since landlords benefit from immigration (especially high turnover immigration) and his primary interest is landlords and business owners.

This is a symptom of FPTP-based Westminster governments. If we had a more equitable electoral system, the blame can be more appropriately distributed and - even better - the issues can be addressed more efficiently.

Democracy NEEDS turnover to be effective.

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#310

Post by dfxm12 »

DustinBrett wrote: post #223
whalesalad wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there an ELI5 that explains all of this from a-z? As an outsider I can't help but think people are being hyperbolic about it.

Yes they are, it isn't that big a deal, a new talking head will be in power for a while and eventually the blame for any problems will shift to him.

I think it is a big deal. In many countries, you see a centre politician do some very normal thing that gets disingenuous outrage from the right solely with the intention (and effect) of dragging the Overton window over. From there, it is lather, rinse, repeat. The biggest reason for this is because capital has most of the power, most of the news outlets and capital is, of course, conservative.

When things do swing the other way, it is muted. Can you say Biden is more left than Obama? Were Harris' policies to the left of Biden's? Is Starmer's labour party more left than Corbyn's? On the whole, no.

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