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Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

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Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#291

Post by BJones12 »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #179
nemo44x wrote: post #54

Is Canada better today then when he started as PM? I struggle to agree that it is. Housing is as bad as it has ever been and the immigration decisions seem to have been so careless that even people that would agree with immigration as a general principal are horrified by it by and large. The Canadian dollar has collapsed VS the USD. I guess it always ends bad if you stick around long enough.

Canada is definitely worse than it was ten years ago, but all of the major problems are provincial responsibilities: housing, health care, education, policing. The largely conservative provinces have done a very good job of blaming Trudeau and immigration for problems that are entirely their own.

> The largely conservative provinces have done a very good job of blaming Trudeau and immigration for problems that are entirely their own.

No. Immigration reduces available housing. Immigration overloads the health care system. Immigration strains the education system. Immigration creates ethnic enclaves that are hard to police.

Immigration is a federal responsibility. Trudeau and the Liberals are to blame.

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#292

Post by Dakizhu »

toasteros wrote: post #213
whalesalad wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there an ELI5 that explains all of this from a-z? As an outsider I can't help but think people are being hyperbolic about it.

No, because Canada is not "ruined" or "damaged". The ONE dreadful thing the Liberals did was to renege on their promise of electoral reform. All Westminster-style Parliaments are done a disservice by using First-past-the-post. Trudeau campaigned on replacing the system with proportional representation, but incumbents in Westminster governments will never change the system that made them win. Most people turn to the C…

What’s dreadful is the rising cost of living and lack of affordable housing, which he failed to address. Moreover he doubled immigration during a time when the average Canadian was struggling to keep up with rising expenses.

I’m pro-immigration but not at an unsustainable rate. Housing construction was not keeping up.

Trudeau pushed beyond the limits of pro-immigration policy. If it was just conservative propaganda, the liberals wouldn’t be looking at a potentially historic election loss based on current polling.

That said, I don’t think conservatives will fix anything.

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#293

Post by swat535 »

throw0101d wrote: post #196
csense wrote: post #34

Patio11 has some good coverage of Trudeau's handling of the trucker protest against the government's handling of COVID-19 [1]. Whatever you think of the truckers' position or protest tactics, any punishment for their actions ought to go through the laws and court system. Trudeau instead essentially told the banking system "You can't do business with those people, they're terrorists." Patio11's words of what happened…

> […] ought to go through the laws and court system. The Emergencies Act is part of the laws of Canada: * https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/e-4.5/ * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergencies_Act And there were court orders: * https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60356461 * 2022 ONSC 1001: https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/doc/2022/2022onsc1001/2022... ; https://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.ca/english/doc…

And the court of law later determined that this was an abuse of power and unlawful. The fact that there is an existing law that can be abused does not negate the argument that abusing it is unlawful.

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#294

Post by vizzier »

Cumpiler69 wrote: post #73
jyscao wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is Canada better today then when he started as PM? As you've already concluded, the answer is absolutely not. The Canada I grew up with, and mind you my family are immigrants from the 90s and early 2000s ourselves, is completely shattered.

>The Canada I grew up with [...] is completely shattered. What happened?

The 90s were a demographic golden age for Canada but people get old. This is a problem true of most of the western world and is upstream from almost any other issue.

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#295

Post by a-priori »

catgary wrote: post #93
csense wrote: post #34

Patio11 has some good coverage of Trudeau's handling of the trucker protest against the government's handling of COVID-19 [1]. Whatever you think of the truckers' position or protest tactics, any punishment for their actions ought to go through the laws and court system. Trudeau instead essentially told the banking system "You can't do business with those people, they're terrorists." Patio11's words of what happened…

I think it’s worth noting that the weekend before this, local residents of Ottawa had basically “stormed” one of the trucker convoy camps to unblock a road. There were genuine concerns that the residents of Ottawa were ready to take matters into their own hands, and it would be a bloodbath. Not to mention the blockade in Alberta where they were found with guns and a pipe bomb, with their communications indicating the…

I was a resident of downtown Ottawa during this period. It was bad. We had a young kid and didn't feel even safe walking her to a park, because the route crossed over convoy lines and there were all sorts of stories of harassment and assaults. We didn't even experience the worst of it; lots of people dealt with truck horns blaring 24/7, but at least our street at least was kept clear as an emergency route.

We put up with the occupation for about two weeks, but we saw a steady escalation and decided to leave town. We stayed with family for two weeks until the convoy was cleared.

I'm very proud of the residents who were brave enough to put up a resistance (the so-called "Battle of Billings Bridge"), and I'm appalled by the response by the local police and the province. I absolutely believe the federal government made the correct choice, and this was proven out in the public hearing after the fact on the use of the Emergency Act.

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#296

Post by throw0101d »

eastbound wrote: post #203
mass_and_energy wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YSK that the people who had their accounts frozen weren't simply protesting in Ottawa; they were blocking international borders to our largest trading partner, effectively holding our economy hostage. This absolutely constitutes behavior that's a danger to our nation so it makes sense to freeze the accounts of the people doing it. To be clear, there were many attempts to settle this without freezing people's bank acc…

> effectively holding our economy hostage This is what a protest is. (French here). If protesters go as far, and in Canada it was because you did them dirty, then you must sit at a table and negotiate. You must sit at a table and negotiate with everyone in a country. You cannot do someone dirty then complain that they protest. It’s effects removing the right to protest, and therefore, removing democracy itself. Go li…

> This is what a protest is.

They became occupiers when they started living in their trucks. There is no right to occupy in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

If they had slow-rolled their trucks to create traffic jams that is a protest and would have been quite another thing (but also generally illegal, e.g., Ontario Highway Traffic Act §132).

If you don't like what the government is doing elect a new government: that's what elections are for. You don't get to throw a hissy fit and mess up other people's lives and livelihood every time there's a decision you don't like.

Every society is about balancing the rights of the individual and the rights of the collective, and their responsibilities as well. About balancing of different rights when they are in opposition to each other.

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#297

Post by mrbonner »

csense wrote: post #34

Patio11 has some good coverage of Trudeau's handling of the trucker protest against the government's handling of COVID-19 [1]. Whatever you think of the truckers' position or protest tactics, any punishment for their actions ought to go through the laws and court system. Trudeau instead essentially told the banking system "You can't do business with those people, they're terrorists." Patio11's words of what happened…

I, for 1 sec, thought you said press Crtl F to pay respects.

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#298

Post by parthdesai »

throw0101d wrote: post #196
csense wrote: post #34

Patio11 has some good coverage of Trudeau's handling of the trucker protest against the government's handling of COVID-19 [1]. Whatever you think of the truckers' position or protest tactics, any punishment for their actions ought to go through the laws and court system. Trudeau instead essentially told the banking system "You can't do business with those people, they're terrorists." Patio11's words of what happened…

> […] ought to go through the laws and court system. The Emergencies Act is part of the laws of Canada: * https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/e-4.5/ * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergencies_Act And there were court orders: * https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60356461 * 2022 ONSC 1001: https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/doc/2022/2022onsc1001/2022... ; https://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.ca/english/doc…

[flagged]

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#299

Post by Tiktaalik »

I never voted for Justin Trudeau and don't like him, but despite all the angry rhetoric right now in the long term I think he will be considered by history to be one of the better Canadian PMs.

Amongst the Canadian PMs I've experienced, Chretien, Martin, Harper, Trudeau made the most impactful and positive policy changes (eg. legal cannabis, childcare) while navigating the country through the challenges of covid and Trump NAFTA renegotiations.

The negatives of his term are recent and largely tied to global issues being faced by many countries right now (eg. inflation) and so I expect future historians to hand wave these away.

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#300

Post by sangnoir »

stretchwithme wrote: post #211
throw0101d wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> […] against the peaceful protestors. At some point they stopped being protestors and became occupiers. There is no Charter right to occupy—as the pro-Palestinian folks also learned [1] (which was simply re-iterating previous precedent, see perhaps [2]). [1] 2024 ONSC 3755 [2] 2011 ONSC 6862

At what point is that, legally? Did they attack anybody? Obstruct anyone's access to a building they had a right to access? Or does someone just need to declare that someone is an occupier?

It's fascinating how the same arguments can apply to the homeless, but how one sees the homeless vs. the truck protestors is likely to be polar opposites with one group free to stay as they aren't infringing on any rights, and the other group being a nuisance and having to go expeditiously. Which group is tolerated largely depends on your political alignment.
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