The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020) • Hacker News Board

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#301

Post by blackbrokkoli » Fri, Jul 05, 2024, 3:03 PM UTC

edg5000 wrote: post #48

I found that becoming an actual user of your own system changes the perspective entirely. I had this thing that I was making for myself, and it was not ready, not usable at all, or so I thought. After giving up on the project I decided to try and actually started using it as if I was a user. I realised that as users, we are used to countless minor issues, and we automatically find ways around that. When you are the c…

That's a cool take, thank you!

I think it's something that I already knew in my heart, but I think by putting it like this you killed some shipping anxiety and perfectionism tendency in me. Thanks :)

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#302

Post by jgraettinger1 » Fri, Jul 05, 2024, 8:35 PM UTC

linuxlizard wrote: post #231

freilanzer wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never known a software developer who got a bonus. Rarely even recognition.

I came to work over a vacation to fix a critical customer issue. The company rewarded me with a $50 gift card.

Companies have internal processes and typically can’t say “here’s an extra 5k for saving our butts!” unless there’s an existing program and money set aside for such spot bonuses. It’s a huge audit risk.

If your management is good, it absolutely is remembered and impacts future performance and promotion cycles.

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#303

Post by snozolli » Fri, Jul 05, 2024, 10:50 PM UTC

fragmede wrote: post #269

snozolli wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many great products have terrible software behind them. Please give some examples of great products created by software developers that have terrible software behind them.

Early Facebook was written in PHP, and regardless of what you think of them as a company, just look at their market cap. WordPress has a huge userbase these days and had similar roots.

How is that terrible software? PHP isn't the new hotness, but it's everywhere, fairly easy to pick up, and reasonably fast.

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#304

Post by softsound » Sat, Jul 06, 2024, 2:52 AM UTC

fabioborellini wrote: post #185

throwaway84751 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like a toxic workplace, but you should do yourself a big favor and try to put that behind you. If you keep that mindset in your new job, your perspective will be negative and you risk burning out. If you work at a traditional workplace, think of yourself as a professional. Do the best work you can during business hours, without ruining your health. The company is paying you to make decisions that are best f…

I'm sorry to say but I'm very much burned out already. It all went well for a while after switching jobs, but the lockdowns and remote work ruined what was left of my life. My friends noted that they don't miss me, my company switched to completely remote etc. I can now only sleep and work, I can't even think of anything else anymore. I did put that behind me after switching jobs. My initial outlook and attitude on p…

If they ask for the impossible then perhaps things are not looking good for the company. I think you better figure out somewhere else to go soon because that tends to mean they won't last much longer. It's a tough market but there is always hope, try and build out some side projects and get out before your company starts to fold or you are let go. Sometimes just a change of view is nice so maybe try something different.

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#305

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Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#306

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jul 06, 2024, 9:14 AM UTC

throwaway84751 wrote: post #144

Culonavirus wrote: post #14

There's massive caveat with all of these "and then the story ends because we didn't just ship it :(" stories: sometimes the value of the "app" you're working on is in the technical details that cannot really be "hastened" and you can't "just ship it". Also, and this is something a lot of the managerial class people don't want to hear: Your job as a sw engineer/architect is to resist the "just ship it" pressure from t…

I was one of the first employees in a startup, and if I hadn't made compromises the company would probably not exist today. Your approach only works for big established companies where your team has limited impact on the results. For small and medium sized companies you definitely need to make compromises. It is part of your job as a professional to make choices that leads to the best business outcome. Unfortunately…

[deleted]

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#307

Post by shepherdjerred » Sat, Jul 06, 2024, 4:45 PM UTC

kkarakk wrote: post #255

shepherdjerred wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll drop in here and say that donating a kidney is an excellent relatively low risk thing you can do that has the power to transform someone's life. Here [0] is an excellent article telling one persons' story. [0]: https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/my-left-kidney

Last i researched, donating a kidney affects your quality of life extra-ordinarily. for eg you can't eat the same way, can't exercise/move around the same way and also you might have permanent complications from the surgery. i MIGHT consider it for a close relative but for a stranger? that would require some real mental gymnastics.

From what I know, this isn't true. Nutritionally, the only thing you need to avoid is high-protein diets. You can exercise just fine after a 6 week recovery period.

Of course, it's impossible to predict complications. Some donors have died on the operating table. The risk of complication is very low, though.

If you have any other questions I'm happy to answer.

Sources

* https://www.livingdonorgames.org/

* https://www.kidneyregistry.org/for-donors/kidney-donation-bl...

* https://www.kidneyregistry.org/for-donors/i-want-to-learn-mo...

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#308

Post by Viliam1234 » Sat, Jul 06, 2024, 6:56 PM UTC

vasco wrote: post #96

zogrodea wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It reminded me of that quote wrongly attributed to Shigeru Miyamoto (who created Mario and Zelda and other classic games). "A rushed game is bad forever, but a delayed one may eventually be good." Of course it may not apply to software today (except to the extent first impressions count) because modern software tends to be continuously maintained (and modern games often are too, to a much lesser degree, with post-rel…

Games were not updatable at the time of the quote, which makes an incredibly huge difference from products that can be regularly updated to fix issues.

Even if a game (or any other software) can be updated later, improving things and fixing bugs is not necessarily a business priority, because you could be adding new features or working on a new product instead.

The profit-maximizing strategy is to keep the level of crappiness that frustrates your customers, but not enough to make them switch to a competing product.

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#309

Post by protocolture » Sun, Jul 07, 2024, 1:30 AM UTC

pdonis wrote: post #274

protocolture wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>No. Your job is to do what the company pays you for. Yes and no. Ultimately, your solution will live on after you. Even if theres no way for it to backfire publicly, your coworkers and future employees have to deal with it. It can absolutely ruin your reputation and cost you future employment. Admittedly its much easier for a contractor to draw a red line, but I had done this as far back as my first full time IT job…

> It can absolutely ruin your reputation and cost you future employment. If your solution does not meet the company's needs, yes, this is certainly true. But I never said you should do something that does not meet the company's needs. I just pointed out that meeting the company's needs, even if you add the qualifier that you are going to do that in a way that is professional and does not create unnecessary burdens fo…

> Hey I wrote that software, you know, from last years massive security breach.

Like company policies can be wrong. They are often wrong. It wont matter to your reputation that some CEO accepted the risk and asked you to ship before code review.

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#310

Post by aprilthird2021 » Sun, Jul 07, 2024, 6:36 AM UTC

pertymcpert wrote: post #296

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can see some of the tone being too adversarial, but I think the gist, that we are after all professional engineers, who studied and spent time and money to understand how to build such systems to high standards. And since we are that and are paid for that knowledge, we should strive to improve software / system quality as much as possible. Isn't the job of executives, managers, etc. to figure out the constraints we…

Those kinds of orgs eventually get eaten alive by orgs who had better alignment because they’re inefficient. Executives are human and they need the help of engineering teams to make some decisions. If every question about “can be ship this faster?” is answered with “no because we’re professional engineers who’ve studied a long time to build systems to high standards”, then that company will lose vs another competitor…

> Executives are human and they need the help of engineering teams to make some decisions. If every question about “can be ship this faster?” is answered with “no because we’re professional engineers who’ve studied a long time to build systems to high standards”, then that company will lose vs another competitor who had a more collaborative approach.

It's the executives' job to synthesize info from other orgs and understand the business. In social media apps for example, delaying a feature launch for better quality may not be worth it. In commercial aeronautics software, it matters a lot better.