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Firefox on the brink?

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Re: Firefox on the brink?

#301

Post by chrismorgan »

robin_reala wrote: post #28

It’s not on the brink, it’s that Firefox shims GA[1] with Enhanced Tracking Protection, which is on by default.[2] analytics.usa.gov uses GA. So you really can’t rely on usage figures that don’t represent the truth of your situation. [1] https://github.com/mozilla/gecko-dev/blob/413b88689f3ca2a30b... [2] https://blog.mozilla.org/en/products/firefox/firefox-now-ava...

“Enhanced Tracking Protection” is a poor name: it’s not just one thing, but has two modes: Standard and Strict. (There’s also Custom, which lets you go somewhere between the two, or restrict cookies even more tightly.)

The default is Standard. It doesn’t block GA. The cynic in me suggests they decided making Firefox disappear altogether from popular stats by default would have harmed them more than not doing it harms their users, or that the backlash would be too great for their liking.

Sources like Google Analytics and Statcounter are still chronically undercounting minority browsers and platforms, which are much more likely to block these sorts of things, and Firefox and Linux will be particularly heavily hit, but I’m sure the difference it makes isn’t as large as I’d like it to be.

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#302

Post by [deleted] »

rdm_blackhole wrote: post #255
PaulHoule wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU could have a privacy-friendly browser if it funded Mozilla or a Mozilla fork.

That would be a no from me. Considering the recent headlines from the EU wanting to scan every private message on the phones of it's citizens in order to "protect the children".

[deleted]

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#303

Post by fallingknife »

Certhas wrote: post #270
loganmarchione wrote: post #36

Mozilla also just posted their State of Mozilla 2022 (this includes financial statements). From what I've read, it seems that expenses are up and revenue from search deals is down. https://stateof.mozilla.org/ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38530382 https://www.ghacks.net/2023/12/05/mozilla-earned-close-to-60... Firefox's market share has been on the decline since 2010. https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market…

Am I reading the documents you link right? Mozilla is wildly profitable. They made a profit of roughly 150 Million dollars last year. They have 1.2 Billion dollars in assets. They have increased revenue from non-search deals significantly (56M -> 75M, up one third). Despite all the gnashing of teeth in this comment section about woke Mozilla, they spent only 5 Million on grants last year. The vast majority goes towar…

A CEO making almost 5% of the company's profit is absolutely massive for a company that size.

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#304

Post by jillesvangurp »

theboywho wrote: post #48

A lot of people around me are switching back to firefox as chrome is showing signs of cracks, especially with the Youtube/ad-blocking saga on chrome. Also, I don't think the US govt guidelines are going to have a dramatic worldwide impact on firefox numbers, the US is no longer the major online player it once was.

Yes, people that believe that Google will forever own the web are the same people that used to believe that Microsoft would forever own it. MS got arrogant and lost. Google looks like they are repeating that mistake.

A few things that could go against this:

- If enough people use Firefox, no commercial business in their right mind will tell these people to "please leave, we don't serve your kind". Seems to be true for obscure versions of internet explorer still in use. Definitely true for Firefox for some time to come.

- Legislation might force the market to open up on mobile. Right now Apple is blocking the Chrome and Firefox rendering engines (well they allow similarly named shells around safari). And Google of course "owns" the search and browsing experience on Android by default and twists every OEM into signing a restrictive licensing deal. At least you can install firefox on Android. There are some signs this might start changing. A lot of outrage around privacy and ad blockers might speed this up.

- People can still vote with their feet. If you watch Youtube on a laptop and you don't have an effective ad blocker, Firefox is blocking them very nicely. I watch a lot of youtube and 100% ad free, just saying.

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#305

Post by mariusor »

tnorthcutt wrote: post #221
nine_k wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can imagine that the CEO, or maybe a few other top officers, may say: "This is me who is bringing in all the search deals, which means all the money. Come on and try to oust me." Mozilla is an open-source project. When an open-source project somehow loses its way, it's often forked by a new team of contributors who have a better idea. This happened several times: Open Office / Libre Office, MySQL / MariaDB, X86 / X…

It would e.g. take 33M users who agree to pay $5/mo for a Mozilla "support subscription" to collect $400M a year. Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but when I do the math (33M x 5 x 12) I get $1.98B. Maybe you meant $1/month?

I'm deeply disturbed of this normalization of software as a subscription service. I want the return of good old days when people could pay once for their software and use it in perpetuity.

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#306

Post by conradfr »

NelsonMinar wrote: post #169
robin_reala wrote: post #28

It’s not on the brink, it’s that Firefox shims GA[1] with Enhanced Tracking Protection, which is on by default.[2] analytics.usa.gov uses GA. So you really can’t rely on usage figures that don’t represent the truth of your situation. [1] https://github.com/mozilla/gecko-dev/blob/413b88689f3ca2a30b... [2] https://blog.mozilla.org/en/products/firefox/firefox-now-ava...

Do you have a source for a more accurate picture of Firefox' market share? Every single report I've seen shows the same thing: long downward trend and a tiny fraction of the usage of Chrome and Safari.

I have a modest (non-technical) side project (a few thousands visitors per day) that is used worldwide.

GoAccess puts Firefox at 7.8% and Google Analytics at 3.3%.

GoAccess puts Chrome at 57% and Google Analytics at 73%.

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#307

Post by Chabsff »

amadeuspagel wrote: post #297
Chabsff wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but the government HAS to make that determination in a data-driven way. It cannot be based on anything subjective, for what should be obvious reasons. On top of that, said lack of knowledge is a stated goal of all privacy-focused browsers. GA-blindness is an implementation detail of these policies. Any method the government could use to accurately track that information is effectively a bug in need of fixing fr…

There is no standard that you can use instead of a set of browsers. There is no way of making sure that a website works with a browser other then testing it with that browser. The reason people test with different browsers is not that they want to use non-standard features, it's that even standard features often do not work in certain browsers.

Sort of agreed as of today, but this is not something that we just have to accept, especially considering the government doesn't really have a need to make use of the full suite of tools provided by the various existing standards. There are safe subsets to be picked in 2023.

The government doesn't design roads to conform to the top brands of cars and trucks. It specs them to a standard and any manufacturer can have their product certified as compliant. This both protects the public and gives anyone an opportunity to provide products no matter how small their market share is. Doing it the other way around would be madness, and I don't see why the same principle shouldn't apply here.

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#308

Post by slig »

moron4hire wrote: post #180
aaomidi wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Mozilla is looking for a new CEO I’ll sign myself up.

I'll even give them a deal. I'll run the company into the ground at twice the speed for half the money.

How? I feel that anything different than what's been done will improve their presence.

edit: username checks out.

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#309

Post by Steltek »

robin_reala wrote: post #28

It’s not on the brink, it’s that Firefox shims GA[1] with Enhanced Tracking Protection, which is on by default.[2] analytics.usa.gov uses GA. So you really can’t rely on usage figures that don’t represent the truth of your situation. [1] https://github.com/mozilla/gecko-dev/blob/413b88689f3ca2a30b... [2] https://blog.mozilla.org/en/products/firefox/firefox-now-ava...

What stood out to me was that they didn't break out mobile from PC. The mobile landscape dominates usage these days and extremely few people make an active choice in browser there. The presented stats to me reads more like Android vs iPhone than it does Chrome vs everyone else.

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#310

Post by slig »

tiahura wrote: post #60
loganmarchione wrote: post #36

Mozilla also just posted their State of Mozilla 2022 (this includes financial statements). From what I've read, it seems that expenses are up and revenue from search deals is down. https://stateof.mozilla.org/ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38530382 https://www.ghacks.net/2023/12/05/mozilla-earned-close-to-60... Firefox's market share has been on the decline since 2010. https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market…

[flagged]

I would be that all of them use iPhones and neither of them uses FF mobile.
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