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Firefox on the brink?

brycewray.com

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Re: Firefox on the brink?

#231

My anecdata shows that Google's recent decisions on the direction of Chrome and changes at Youtube have technically savvy users abandoning Chrome for Firefox,

Yes, every day Google seems to be doing things to drive people away, but it's not really moving the kinds of numbers that are going to make a difference. Also, some of those users will move to Chromium-based alternatives like Brave and Vivaldi, which might blunt some of the worst abuses but doesn't help ecosystem on the whole if you want a browser engine to exist that isn't controlled by Apple and Google.

Alternately, the technically savvy users understand that allowing Google's control of Blink to replace open standards with whatever implementation details Google prefers is to be avoided at all costs.

It's just a repeat of the IE 6 debacle.

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#232
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firefox regularly crashes for me on wayland. It slows down my whole system when it tries to load a page in first boot (but librewolf doesn’t for some reason) the HID and webgl/webgpu support is bad… It’s just not a very good browser compared to chrome forks or webkit based ones.

I also have crashes on sway, but there’s a rough workaround now which prevents the issue totally. I believe there’s a design issue with Firefox and GTK handling input events; some Wayland compositors have workarounds but others do not. https://github.com/swaywm/sway/issues/7645 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1743144 Firefox is my preferred browser and I hope we can keep its engine alive in this era of C…

I have been using Sway and Firefox for the last three years at least, and have never experienced crashes. Sway and Firefox as packaged by Debian Stable. I really wish people on HN threads complaining about Firefox bugs clearly stated 1) their environment, and 2) who packaged the Firefox, because those are what could make all the difference.

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#234
post #52

Mozilla also just posted their State of Mozilla 2022 (this includes financial statements). From what I've read, it seems that expenses are up and revenue from search deals is down. https://stateof.mozilla.org/ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38530382 https://www.ghacks.net/2023/12/05/mozilla-earned-close-to-60... Firefox's market share has been on the decline since 2010. https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market…

> Mozilla Corporation CEO Mitchell Baker's salary? What a ridiculous question. Obvious the chief captain on the Titanic is not responsible for the Iceberg jumping at the boat.

Snark is against the rules on HN.

> Don't be snarky.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#235
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a pretty reasonable question when the salary is so incredibly out of line with what developers make. Is the CEO singlehandedly responsible for productivity equal to that of sixty or so developers?

CEO salaries aren’t, and never have been, relative to the rank and file salaries. The question is how much you need to be to get a competent executive relative to the open market. You can argue whether they’re getting what they’re paying for but this doesn’t seem to be out of line relative to the leaders of other, similarly sized organizations. Also a non profit has to have higher salaries as there’s not a lot of roo…

the benchmark of what other CEOs make is a horrible metric. There is an entire industry of « Consultants » who will justify a higher CEO salary by claiming that other CEOs make the higher salary and then work with those other CEOs by point to your now higher salary.

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google finally beat my hands with a stick firmly enough to get me off Firefox. It was youtube. Not the ads -- I pay for premium -- but the fact that on FF they added an artificial 5s page load delay on firefox plus a bug has lingered for months where it always loads the last video, so you have to load every video twice. 12s/video is too much delay. Ah well, it was good while it lasted.

Sad when I had the 5s issue on FF I switched to Freetube. No surprise Google is doing those tactics if people react like you :( ...

Thanks for the recommendation, I'll give freetube a spin!

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#237

Why is the US government even supporting specific browsers? It should support a standard like HTML 4 with no CSS or JS required. i.e. make the actual functionality on their sites simple to reduce the chance it doesn't work somewhere. They're not Spotify. They're not trying to growth hack. They don't need to look pretty and have fancy animations and match some designer's dream down to the pixel. They can add CSS etc.…

> It should support a standard like HTML 4 with no CSS or JS required. i.e. make the actual functionality on their sites simple to reduce the chance it doesn't work somewhere. You're right of course. It's not really a case of 'supporting' browsers, it's a case of testing their sites against other browsers in case developers have accidentally written some non-portable Chrome only code. This was very much the case in t…

> Developers wrote and tested their sites for and with IE6, and were then surprised they rendered (in)correctly on Firefox and looked wrong

But that's the point: rendering shouldn't really matter. For things that are important like government systems, we should treat web "apps" much like TeX encourages: you specify the semantics, and let the rendering engine do what it will. Don't try to precisely control it. You can and should assume that users can totally override rendering with a custom agent, that browsers will disagree on default rendering, and that they may ignore your CSS instructions.

Like if someone wants to use a browser that always renders h1, h2, p, etc. with specific fonts and colors, totally ignores any CSS, and adds buttons to each table column header to sort on that column, that should all just work. Or if you want to use a braille output or screen reader.

For important tools and information, not entertainment/shopping, functionality should trump all other concerns.

My bank and now my power company have issues where I need to use chromium to fill out a form, and I don't understand it. I know Firefox supports forms. For whatever reason, javascript is loading the thing and screwing up somehow. I don't see why js is even involved, but frankly it screams incompetence to me. The easiest thing in the world to build, and they've broken it trying to make it look nice.

I don't go to my power company website for fun. I'm there to pay a bill. I need a form with 5 inputs and a submit button, and that's it. The rest of the screen can be plain white for all I care. Literally something I could put together in 2 minutes when I was 11, and it does not work. Paper should not have a better UI than a website.

Incidentally, this is why I'm not too worried about AI. If companies wanted cheap/easy/reliable systems, that's been doable on the web the whole time. People can't resist making things difficult for themselves, and they'll pay very good money to do it.

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#238
post #30
post #7

What could get people to move to firefox? Is the only way really to have have your browser be popular is to have it either be installed by default, or being advertised on a page that people use daily? Would be crazy if facebook had a banner stating "switch to firefox now" suddenly

A lot of developers I know have moved to Firefox recently because of containers. https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/how-use-firefox-contain...

I literally could not switch away even if I wanted to because no other browser has anything close to container tabs. My workflow is built around it

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#239
post #210

Mozilla also just posted their State of Mozilla 2022 (this includes financial statements). From what I've read, it seems that expenses are up and revenue from search deals is down. https://stateof.mozilla.org/ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38530382 https://www.ghacks.net/2023/12/05/mozilla-earned-close-to-60... Firefox's market share has been on the decline since 2010. https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market…

I can imagine that the CEO, or maybe a few other top officers, may say: "This is me who is bringing in all the search deals, which means all the money. Come on and try to oust me." Mozilla is an open-source project. When an open-source project somehow loses its way, it's often forked by a new team of contributors who have a better idea. This happened several times: Open Office / Libre Office, MySQL / MariaDB, X86 / X…

The EU could have a privacy-friendly browser if it funded Mozilla or a Mozilla fork.

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#240

I'm one of those who rarely uses Firefox. I have it installed, but Google is just to integrated in my life. Gmail, Drive, YouTube, Android, etc. Now, I just launched Firefox (on Windows), and the fonts look absolutely atrocious compared to Chrome. What's up with that? Edit: "gfx.font_rendering.cleartype_params.enhanced_contrast 0" made it a lot better, but not quite as nice a Chrome. Still a whole lot better than the…

    Google is just to integrated in my life. Gmail, Drive, YouTube
I use these all day too and they work perfectly on FF for me.

I know there was the recent "5 second YT delay on FF" debacle. But, I actually have a paid YT subscription, so I never saw/see it.

    Now, I just launched Firefox (on Windows), and the fonts look 
    absolutely atrocious compared to Chrome.
Something I've noticed is that when you spend enough time looking at one style of font rendering, the others look "wrong" and I think that's what you're experiencing.

Used to see this a lot with Mac and Windows in the pre retina/hidpi days. Users switching from one to the other would be shocked at how "wrong" the fonts were. In reality, neither one was "right" or "wrong" but they sure were different.

FWIW FF and Chrome's fonts both look fine to me on Windows 10 but again, that's just my purely subjective view.

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