Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

jvns.ca

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

301–310 of 371 posts

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#301

Post by johnnyanmac »

staunton wrote: post #290
johnnyanmac wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You sound wishy washy and you need to review your requirements, and/or rope in someone who does knows how to do it right in that case. There is nothing wrong with "this doesn't feel right but I don't have the capacity to tell". If you aren't qualified for that sort of code review, find the proper peer who can.

My comment was parody. Surely, nobody actually says things like that?

unfortunately I have seen that sort of language. Usually more as mumblings of a manager that has given up on trying to maintain a quality codebase, but I suppose Poe's Law strikes yet again.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#302

Post by johnnyanmac »

mcpackieh wrote: post #287
johnnyanmac wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Save the compliments for when I do something you actually like. issue in cultures like this is compliments never come. Maybe a "thanks/good work" after the project/module is done, but by then it's empty words. feels more like "thanks for making me lots of money" instead of "thanks for contributing your skills to this project" if we treat compliments with a waterfall approach with no substance.

In the culture of prefacing every simple question with empty praise, then all praise becomes an empty formality. It's far worse than receiving a simple "good work" after the job is done. If you have to choose between the two instead of finding some reasonable middle-ground, then you should choose the one that entails treating your coworkers like professional adults instead of emotionally sensitive children.

In reality, we tend towards one extreme. So to correct that, there is nothing wrong with over-correcting and leaning back if it becomes a problem. This is assuming benevolent actors, of course.

IME even in attempts to over correct we may still end up undercorrecting. So I'm not too afraid of a huge shift to empty platitudes.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#303

Post by johnnyanmac »

nemetroid wrote: post #256
johnnyanmac wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is irrelevant. no, it's the entire point. Don't focus all on the bad, we're biased towards that and it's something we should always keep in mind. >In the example under discussion, the judgement of the work as a whole was "bad", exhibit A. Where in that top post was the objective judgement "bad"? As a reminder: > If you are calling out your colleagues for doing bad work, or not the way you would do it work, you…

> If you cant self-introspect and understand different approaches, as well as shortcomings in your own, then yes. I would say you are that hostile worker no one wants to work with. That is entirely unwarranted, and beside the point. > Where in that top post was the objective judgement "bad"? No objective judgement is being made or communicated. > We're assuming the "caller" in this case is right. We don't need to ass…

okay, so we're talking in circles and you simply dismiss any attempts at clarifiation. I have a point but you are free to ignore it, even if you think it's irrelevant it is to me.

just keep this thread in mind the next time you say in your mind "I don't know why coworker X isn't getting it". Sometimes you need to check under your shoe.

EDIT: the last response shows I was wasting my time here. I wish we had an ignore feature on HN.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#304

Post by johnnyanmac »

Yhippa wrote: post #47

Boggles my mind that for as long as I've worked, I rarely see this in practice. It costs almost nothing to do. I try to do it when I can.

Look at the responses in this thread and you see why. People are just bundles of nerves these days and can't even take a compliment without over-analyzing the intent behind it. Sometimes a duck is just a duck.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#305

Post by [deleted] »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #303
nemetroid wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you cant self-introspect and understand different approaches, as well as shortcomings in your own, then yes. I would say you are that hostile worker no one wants to work with. That is entirely unwarranted, and beside the point. > Where in that top post was the objective judgement "bad"? No objective judgement is being made or communicated. > We're assuming the "caller" in this case is right. We don't need to ass…

okay, so we're talking in circles and you simply dismiss any attempts at clarifiation. I have a point but you are free to ignore it, even if you think it's irrelevant it is to me. just keep this thread in mind the next time you say in your mind "I don't know why coworker X isn't getting it". Sometimes you need to check under your shoe. EDIT: the last response shows I was wasting my time here. I wish we had an ignore…

[deleted]

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#306

Post by borroka »

pbourke wrote: post #297
borroka wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see my comment as particularly profound. I have lived for a few decades at this point and have noticed, like anyone else I imagine, a desire in (some, but a nontrivial percentage of) people to maintain lifelong ways of thinking and behaving that have been historically associated with early life. For example, a desire to be praised and not challenged, to dress like a teenager even as one nears retirement, to s…

> to dress like a teenager even as one nears retirement For some of us this is a KPI of our life/job satisfaction. I can tell you that if I was in some job that did not allow me to schlep around in hoodies and cargo pants I would be much, much less happy than I am today.

I don't like to judge the appearance of others and prefer just to maintain high standards for myself. My comment was descriptive and not normative.

I like working out and being in shape, but if others prefer to do some side project at night instead of hitting weights, it is fine with me. I enjoy reading and thinking, but if others prefer to watch reality tv, who am I to judge them?

Admittedly, seeing some of my middle-aged colleagues who are complete slobs, from their worn-out clothes to their prominent bellies to their unkempt hair and beards and some fun smell coming out of them, is a stress-test for the fortitude of my beliefs.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#307

Post by tennisprince »

I worked at a large bank that attempted to formalise this through a software application they purchased, which allowed you to recognise people on your team. The solution was over-engineered to hell with low engagement. A culture which fostered simple acknowledgements in a stand-up meeting would have been immeasurably more personal and effective.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#308

Post by rectang »

ori_b wrote: post #76
gabereiser wrote: post #4

>Ask if it’s ok first… This is very astute. Not everyone likes getting praise in public settings or they might not want their micromanaging manager to know they helped you outside the scope of their work. You should be cognizant of when praise should be given (i.e. when is it appropriate) and in what context as mentioned in the article. That said, if you aren’t thanking and praising your colleagues for doing good wor…

> If you are calling out your colleagues for doing bad work, or not the way you would do it work, you should try to rephrase into praise w/ direction. “I really liked how you tackled this, have you thought about this approach?” Instead of “Why didn’t you do it this way?” I don't want to work with people that communicate this way.

I've found that people who prefer to receive "direct" critiques don't object to genuine praise accompanying suggestions, and so there's no need to adapt communication styles to omit praise.

But I personally can't adapt to the subset of people who spin a preference for receiving "direct" critiques into a penchant for giving critiques with no consideration whatever for preserving the face of the recipient.

My worst experiences have been with people who make a big deal about being "direct" but are actually quite psychologically astute and who find ways to smuggle maximum cruelty within their "direct" critiques, yet without going over the line where a sanction would be justified.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#309

Post by pxc »

eweise wrote: post #268
pxc wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Why didn't you do it this way?" is aggressive and critical. 'Why didn't you do it this way?' reveals an expectation that you would have done whatever it was 'this way', but it doesn't indicate that that expectation is normative . A junior might well ask that just because 'this way' is the only way they know how to do it, and they're curious about whether the developer they're asking chose a different route for sty…

"Aggressive and critical" I couldn't find the right words initially but a better word might be accusatory. To me, it sounds like they should have but didn't. A lot of other posters don't get that flavor from it and see it as just a genuine curiosity which makes sense.

> To me, it sounds like they should have but didn't. A lot of other posters don't get that flavor from it and see it as just a genuine curiosity which makes sense.

Imo a lot of the difficulty with things like this comes from high turnover and/or siloing. When you're working with someone who is basically a stranger, that means you've hardly had a chance to build up a real sense of rapport/trust/comfort with that person. So it's easier to doubt yourself and harder to know what the other person really intends.

Most differences in communication style or preferences about how to approach criticism are at least somewhat easier to deal with between people who know each other and understand what their particular differences are.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#310

Post by nemetroid »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #303
nemetroid wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you cant self-introspect and understand different approaches, as well as shortcomings in your own, then yes. I would say you are that hostile worker no one wants to work with. That is entirely unwarranted, and beside the point. > Where in that top post was the objective judgement "bad"? No objective judgement is being made or communicated. > We're assuming the "caller" in this case is right. We don't need to ass…

okay, so we're talking in circles and you simply dismiss any attempts at clarifiation. I have a point but you are free to ignore it, even if you think it's irrelevant it is to me. just keep this thread in mind the next time you say in your mind "I don't know why coworker X isn't getting it". Sometimes you need to check under your shoe. EDIT: the last response shows I was wasting my time here. I wish we had an ignore…

> Sometimes you need to check under your shoe.

Indeed.

Post reply on HN