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The Future of the Vim Project

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Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#301

Post by 5e92cb50239222b »

oblio wrote: post #20
tokai wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>better if they merge You and meitham are very focused on this, but it is very much an opinion and not a fact.

It is an opinion backed by watching Open Source projects for several decades. Long lived forks are rarely good for an individual project. Frankly, the most successful forks I've seen unfortunately... kind of strangle off the original. Jenkins/Huson, LibreOffice/OpenOffice, MariaDB/MySQL, ConsoleZ/Console2/... Though there are cases where the original wins out: Emacs/XEmacs, etc. Especially since it's not like Vim/Neo…

MariaDB didn't "strangle off" MySQL. The latter is still significantly more popular (probably 10 times as much, if not more) if you look outside our HN/Linux bubble. It also had one of the best releases ever under Oracle's guidance back in 2018, many years after the split, when very few of the original developers were still at Oracle. Meanwhile, MariaDB development slowed down significantly over the past few years as they're having financial problems.

(You might counter that by saying that the last MySQL release was in 2018, but it's not really comparable: Oracle does all of its development behind closed doors and then does major code dumps when it's ready. MariaDB prefer shipping small releases every 6 months or so.)

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#302

Post by ThrowAway1922A »

petee wrote: post #172
ThrowAway1922A wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While there probably isn't anything on them, it's always been a pain to not know. I know I wouldn't care because I'd be dead, but I really do not want my family getting on to my personal devices after I'm dead. Those are things that I will never give them the passwords for, not everything is their business.

I think that's fine; albeit a potentially awkward conversation, I personally would rather have known "hey, here's what you can get into, here is what is private" but we never talked about it at all. Especially important to communicate that in your case, on the off chance they want to hire a data recovery firm in some hope of saving wedding photos or something

> Especially important to communicate that in your case, on the off chance they want to hire a data recovery firm in some hope of saving wedding photos or something

I share any photos with them they might want, but I hopeful that Apple's security setup prevents any practical data recovery. I know my family too well, if I explicitly said "this is private" they'd be trying to get in the moment I was cold.

There's nothing bad on my devices, but there's lots they don't need to know about me.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#303

Post by tomwheeler »

BanazirGalbasi wrote: post #251
fortunateregard wrote: post #17

What is it that prevents the rest of the vim community from adopting neovim? From what I can observe, a great deal already have. But for the folks holding out, what is it that outweighs all that neovim has to offer?

I feel like I've said the same thing here 3-4 times now, but for some of us it's about what's the most minimal setup required to use the tool. As a sysadmin, I want to be used to the most common tools and configurations that will be on a server without having to take the time to install something new. I could include NeoVim in my Ansible configs for setting up new servers, but generally servers are kept lean so I wou…

> for some of us it's about what's the most minimal setup required to use the tool.

That's was the case for me. When I moved from vi to vim 25 years ago, I devoted a lot of time to customizing it for maximum developer efficiency. Around that time, I got a job where I regularly used five different HP/UX machines, a couple of Solaris boxes, and a few other random machines. At the next job, it was HP/UX, AIX, and IRIX. Few of those machines had vim at all, let alone a version compatible with the setup I had on Linux.

I eventually stopped doing the fancy things and settled into using plain vanilla vi, knowing that it would at least work consistently on every machine I used.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#304

Post by highpost »

syndicatedjelly wrote: post #279
fortunateregard wrote: post #17

What is it that prevents the rest of the vim community from adopting neovim? From what I can observe, a great deal already have. But for the folks holding out, what is it that outweighs all that neovim has to offer?

I would like to use Neovim, but it's not as fully featured as VSCode is, so when I need to boot up something more powerful than Vim, I go to VSCode instead.

There is an excellent NeoVIM extension that integrates NeoVIM into VS Code. https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=asvetlia...

Best of both worlds.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#305

Post by nemetroid »

berkes wrote: post #294
nemetroid wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$ rpm -qi neovim package neovim is not installed $ dnf search neovim No matches. I don't have anything against it, but prefer being able to use the same tool across environments.

strange. > Neovim is available through EPEL (Extra Packages for Enterprise Linux) from https://github.com/neovim/neovim/wiki/Installing-Neovim#cent... > Neovim is in Fedora starting with Fedora 25 > sudo dnf install -y neovim python3-neovim from https://github.com/neovim/neovim/wiki/Installing-Neovim#fedo...

Not so strange if you’ve met the kind of sysadmins that don’t enable EPEL.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#306

Post by tuwtuwtuwtuw »

hnfong wrote: post #243
tuwtuwtuwtuw wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any source for that claim? I had a coworker who swore that X was the fastest way to do Y. Turned out it wasn't and X just made him very busy hitting keyboard quickly.

You're talking about two totally different things. GP is saying Vim users generally have muscle memory of their shortcuts (I might add, to the extent that some of them may not even be conscious which keys they are pressing). GP also mentioned that Vim takes less mental effort (due to muscle memory) and is faster. The faster part is easy to argue even from a theory perspective. Your hands basically never leave the hom…

> How is that relevant?

I keep reading and hearing folk claiming that X is faster, as in this thread. It would be nice to read some actual study showing this to be true, but it seems like it mostly ends up being strongly held opinions based on anecdotes.

You say it's easy to argue. Sure, it's easy to argue but that doesn't make it correct. I could argue in the other direction and then we end up wasting our time.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#307

Post by enriquto »

berkes wrote: post #293
ftaghn wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How's the vim ecosystem now? Is vimscript still dominant? You can have a full neovim experience with all sorts of modern extensions without using a single line of vimscript. Some people even replace their init (neovim's vimrc) with lua, but I am of the opinion that it is a step too far, as lua isn't particularly adapted to writing configuration files and the result is too verbose to my taste.

My config is a horrible frankenstein of both. I use lua when examples are in lua or when I need some "logic" (such as assigning defaults to a var and then passing that around/overriding). And that's embedded in vimscript. I don't really like either. VimScript has always been a horror to me, eventhough I've been using vim for some 20 years now, almost exclusively. Lua is "that thing that I should really sit down and l…

independently of vim configuration, lua is a cute general-purpose language worth learning in itself. It is much simpler than python, and the documentation is outstanding.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#308

Post by spiralpolitik »

rokizero wrote: post #137
bombcar wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no worry about the funds being lost. It’s just imagining my heirs having to contact and close fifty+ accounts.

Serious question: How common is having dozens of accounts? I live in NL and have 3 at the same bank. Why would anyone have 50+ accounts?

Pretty common in the US verses the EU/UK. The basic middle income set would be:

A checking account A savings account (might be at the same institution as the checking, might not)

From your employment you may have.

- A 401k Account - A Health Savings Account (HSA) - A Health Flexible spending account

These will be at whatever institution your employer uses. As these change every time you change jobs you might have multiples of these in play unless you are diligent in rolling over and closing old accounts.

You also might have:

- Individual Retirement Account (possibly two, one Roth, non-Roth) - College Savings Account (if you have kids and want save for collage in a tax friendly way) - Money Market/Broker account for stocks etc.

If you live in a community property state then you probably have a second set of some these so you that you don't mix individual assets with community assets.

Market consolidation has made it easier to go with an single provider for a lot of the above, but it's still busy work keeping on top of everything.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#309

Post by bombcar »

rokizero wrote: post #137
bombcar wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no worry about the funds being lost. It’s just imagining my heirs having to contact and close fifty+ accounts.

Serious question: How common is having dozens of accounts? I live in NL and have 3 at the same bank. Why would anyone have 50+ accounts?

You sign up for them and never close them. I probably have nearly 50 credit card accounts alone and since they're free of monthly/yearly fees, I really don't have much motivation to close them.

On top of that I have two retirement accounts, four bank accounts (not counting various accounts AT those banks), and more. They collect if you don't weed them out.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#310

Post by aumerle »

NobodyNada wrote: post #283
random_mutex wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>One "meta feature" that was dropped was the ability to build the editor with or without different features. vim --version shows a long list of +/- features, neovim doesn't do that. What's wrong with all features enabled by default? > I'm sure neovim dropped a lot but I don't have the full overview. https://neovim.io/doc/user/vim_diff.html >Prominently it dropped support for giving !commands access to the actual tty.…

> Why would you run an interactive command with `:!` ? I ran up against this limitation recently. The kitty terminal exposes APIs allowing processes to communicate with the terminal using escape codes. I wanted to configure Neovim to access the system clipboard using kitty’s API, so that I could copy/paste from within Neovim even over SSH. However, this would require Neovim to give the clipboard subprocess access to…

neovim supports OSC 52 out of the box so clipboard over SSH should just wrk in kitty or any terminal that supports OSC 52. kitty of course supports a lot more than OSC 52 but for basic opy/paste of plain text, OSC 52 is sufficient.
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