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The Future of the Vim Project

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Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#131

Post by [deleted] »

planede wrote: post #93
oblio wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inertia. Such base programs basically need to go through the Debian packaging gauntlet if they want to succeed. What I mean by that is that generally they need to persuade distros to be anointed the "official" tool, i.e. Debian or Fedora would have to select Neovim as the new default text instead of Vim. Then you need a few years for the changes to trickle down everywhere: Debian -> Ubuntu-> Mint -> ..., Fedora -> RH…

In what sense vim is default in Debian?

[deleted]

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#132

Post by hoten »

majewsky wrote: post #124

Can someone copy-paste the text, please? I cannot read it because Google hates Firefox users apparently. EDIT: The Internet Archive has a functional copy. https://web.archive.org/web/20230810094255/groups.google.com...

The page isn't loading on my mobile Chrome either.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#133

Post by javier_e06 »

I'm saddened by the news.

Required reading: https://evrone.com/blog/bram-moolenaar-interview

"Software development is much more of a craft. A craftsman uses whatever tools he thinks will get the best result, no matter if they are what everybody else is using or something different. And a good craftsman makes his own tools when needed" -B. Moolenar.

As someone who had made vim is part of the development dna: Thank you.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#134

Post by layer8 »

trealira wrote: post #91
oblio wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inertia. Such base programs basically need to go through the Debian packaging gauntlet if they want to succeed. What I mean by that is that generally they need to persuade distros to be anointed the "official" tool, i.e. Debian or Fedora would have to select Neovim as the new default text instead of Vim. Then you need a few years for the changes to trickle down everywhere: Debian -> Ubuntu-> Mint -> ..., Fedora -> RH…

> What I mean by that is that generally they need to persuade distros to be anointed the "official" tool, i.e. Debian or Fedora would have to select Neovim as the new default text instead of Vim. You're probably right. However, I think it's more likely that the Linux distros drop Vim entirely and make Nano the default editor than that they replace Vim with Neovim. The BSDs have nvi as the default editor, IIRC, so the…

Nano already is the default editor (via /etc/alternatives/editor).

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#135

Post by layer8 »

planede wrote: post #93
oblio wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inertia. Such base programs basically need to go through the Debian packaging gauntlet if they want to succeed. What I mean by that is that generally they need to persuade distros to be anointed the "official" tool, i.e. Debian or Fedora would have to select Neovim as the new default text instead of Vim. Then you need a few years for the changes to trickle down everywhere: Debian -> Ubuntu-> Mint -> ..., Fedora -> RH…

In what sense vim is default in Debian?

It’s not, Nano is.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#136

Post by beej71 »

fortunateregard wrote: post #17

What is it that prevents the rest of the vim community from adopting neovim? From what I can observe, a great deal already have. But for the folks holding out, what is it that outweighs all that neovim has to offer?

If neovim had the same keystrokes to move out of a terminal window as it does to move out of editor windows, I'd switch. But as it is, it's super clunky compared to vim.

I know about rebinding to alt, but that doesn't work in all my terminals.

So for me, it's that one lousy thing that keeps me from switching. And if someone knows the magic setting to make it mimic vim, please let me know.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#137

Post by rokizero »

bombcar wrote: post #44
OJFord wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banks are the last thing I'd worry about (I wouldn't) - they're highly regulated, audited, and have been dealing with this forever, since before 'passwords'.

I have no worry about the funds being lost. It’s just imagining my heirs having to contact and close fifty+ accounts.

Serious question: How common is having dozens of accounts? I live in NL and have 3 at the same bank. Why would anyone have 50+ accounts?

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#138

Post by arp242 »

fortunateregard wrote: post #17

What is it that prevents the rest of the vim community from adopting neovim? From what I can observe, a great deal already have. But for the folks holding out, what is it that outweighs all that neovim has to offer?

- It's not backwards compatible.

- Features I find useful have been removed.

- I dislike Lua, and significantly prefer Vim9Script.

- Gvim is useful at times.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#139

Post by maleldil »

gorjusborg wrote: post #100
enriquto wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what is it that outweighs all that neovim has to offer? You should ask, and answer, the question in reverse. What does neovim offer me, as a regular vim user? I don't see anything particularly interesting for my usage, so I don't have any reason to change. Also, some features are missing (like gvim-gtk, that I enjoy using to edit LaTeX occasionally). Furthermore, as of today, plain vim has an aura of venerability d…

> You should ask, and answer, the question in reverse. What does neovim offer me, as a regular vim user? Well, one of the goals of neovim was to make it easier for new people to contribute. So, there's an obvious feature you might be overlooking: the project surviving past its creators passing. Beyond that, async, lua, lsp and treesitter support are other things neovim brings to the table. I don't use vim much anymor…

I know you listed Lua already, but it's important to stress that. Bram _did not_ want Lua as the main scripting language, and created Vim9 Script as a "better VimScript" instead. That's a stark difference in the direction for the project, and it signals to me that Vim is not meant to reintegrate with Neovim. It's no longer a question of Vim catching up with Neovim.

However, this was Bram's vision. We don't know how the new leadership will affect that.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#140

Post by Nzen »

kqr wrote: post #78
OskarS wrote: post #13

My brother passed away very suddenly a few years ago, and I was put in charge of wrapping up and archiving his "digital" life. We were very lucky that we had access to a recovery email for his main gmail account (as well as a couple of passwords that his partner knew) and was able to access and archive virtually all data we could think of (services like Google Takeout were invaluable). I realized that if this had hap…

I'm lucky enough to never have been put in this situation, so please excuse my ignorance: why does someone need to be able to sign in to my accounts when I'm no longer?

While most people have focused on post-mortem account recovery, that's not the only occasion. The small company I've worked for has had the last three administrators leave the company in arrears for a time with quick departures and little handoff of procedures. It is all the more frustrating because we overtly use a shared password managment tool for accessing client servers.
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