By the way, Mercedes tested a self-driving van in 1986[1].
[1]: https://www.politico.eu/article/delf-driving-car-born-1986-e...
Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California
301–310 of 778 posts
Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California
#302Friendly reminder that this system is HEAVILY limited, with the following restrictions: - Must be under 40 mph - Only during the daylight and only on certain highways - CANNOT be operated on city/country streets - CANNOT be operated in construction zones - CANNOT be during heavy rain or fog or flood roads And for comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjZSZTKYEU4 Tesla FSD navigating the complex city streets of…
Do they use a RealTime OS?
If so, (how) do they run GPU drivers on it?
And if not, how do they guarantee that the system is responsive and safe?
(Of course a third option would be that they don't use an OS at all for the mission critical stuff).
Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California
#303Clickbait title to say the least !
While Tesla did amazing things for EVs adoption, and self driving (even if one may say the main contribution is hyping it) it’s hard to see them as leaders anymore.
Fact is, Mercedes is taking responsibility for its system while Tesla is not. Tesla claims (and especially it’s fanboys) starts to look like Theranos. Yeah it almost work and it will be a game changer. Yeah well…
I’m curious about those Tesla videos that are everywhere - is there some kind of dataset somewhere with videos of similar situations, annotated with which version it is etc, so one can make a kind of historical evaluation of its progress ?
(Would also like the history of Elon tweets claiming each version fix this or that to go along in the dataset)
Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California
#304Friendly reminder that this system is HEAVILY limited, with the following restrictions: - Must be under 40 mph - Only during the daylight and only on certain highways - CANNOT be operated on city/country streets - CANNOT be operated in construction zones - CANNOT be during heavy rain or fog or flood roads And for comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjZSZTKYEU4 Tesla FSD navigating the complex city streets of…
Mercedes accepts legal liability for collisions if the system is used under these stringent conditions. Tesla doesn't do this. It also doesn't mean it doesn't have the technical capability to drive through the streets of LA for 60 minutes. https://www.thatcham.org/mercedes-to-accept-liability-for-ac...
Working in the AV space, it's really frustrating how confidently people who have no idea about what's hard and what isn't go off about Tesla right now.
Mercedes has soundly beaten the last decade of Tesla efforts by reaching L3.
I've personally watched FSD go off the rails and into a crash situation within 60 seconds of being turned on three times this month (I have a friend who loves to try it in San Francisco)
Had it crashed it'd be on my friend, not Tesla. The fact Mercedes is taking responsibility puts it in an entirely different level of effectiveness.
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People also don't seem to understand Mercedes has a separate L2 system that works above 45 mph that already scores better than AP by consumer reports
Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California
#305Friendly reminder that this system is HEAVILY limited, with the following restrictions: - Must be under 40 mph - Only during the daylight and only on certain highways - CANNOT be operated on city/country streets - CANNOT be operated in construction zones - CANNOT be during heavy rain or fog or flood roads And for comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjZSZTKYEU4 Tesla FSD navigating the complex city streets of…
Yowzzaa, but the damm Beta on Tesla can't still think of slowing down while cornering on steep curves, throwing people on to the side and not navigate into a dead end that drops into the ocean.
This is not an anecdote, it's my personal experience.
No way I'm not gonna trust a system again, that puts human lives (even those who are not driving a Tesla) for a beta test.
Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California
#306Earlier quoted context omitted.
> prepared to take control immediately I don't think that's correct. I've seen "in a certain amount of time" but you make it sound like it's a safety issue, which it's not, that being a key differentiation from a L2 system. When it can't drive it stops driving and you have to drive. If it's not a safety issue you could conceivably bee sleeping, as long as you can wake up in a timely manner. The SAE makes it clear tha…
That "certain amount of time" is variable, but in practice is on the level of 10-15 seconds for the Mercedes system - at least that's what it was when it was first certified in Germany some time ago. It is designed to let you take your hands off the wheel and look at the scenery, but anything more than that is too much distraction for when it requires you to take over. And it will, because it's really not very capabl…
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Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California
#307Friendly reminder that this system is HEAVILY limited, with the following restrictions: - Must be under 40 mph - Only during the daylight and only on certain highways - CANNOT be operated on city/country streets - CANNOT be operated in construction zones - CANNOT be during heavy rain or fog or flood roads And for comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjZSZTKYEU4 Tesla FSD navigating the complex city streets of…
Sounds like they don't want people to die from their product.
Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California
#308Earlier quoted context omitted.
> They are not even betting one cent in their car safety. Do you mean strictly in the sense of accepting liability for crashes while AutoPilot is engaged? Because Tesla makes safety a primary selling point of their vehicles. Objectively Tesla invests hugely in the safety of their vehicles, and scores the absolute highest marks for safety in many government tests. Tesla makes an L2 system where the driver must remain…
In minor traffic a week or so ago, I ended up next to a Tesla for a few minutes where the driver had zero hands on the wheel, and her eyes were buried in her phone, with her head angled downward. Whatever system was running seemed to be totally fine with that situation; if that's the most advanced driver attention monitoring system available, we're in a lot of trouble. Tesla caring so much about safety is so obviousl…
It is not. The FSD Beta enables an aggressive attention monitor which is not active with the basic AutoPilot system.
The nag when FSD is enabled is actually quite annoying. Even glancing over at the screen for more than a second will trigger it. If it triggers more than a couple times you get locked out for the drive. If it triggers more than 5 times in total across any number of drives, you get locked out entirely for a full week.
Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California
#309Earlier quoted context omitted.
Even considering its heavy limitations, the Mercedes system is miles better than the Tesla, because it is actually useful. You can actually turn on the system and do your email, or take a nap. Yes, the 40 mph limitation on highways seems to make it useless, but many highways get congested to the point where you are not going over 40 mph anyways, and those are the times when it is most frustrating to drive. And regard…
Now try to look up videos of Mercedes’ L3 system in operation and you’ll see how hilarious this claim is. It shuts off immediately without a vehicle to follow in front of you. Good luck taking a nap and typing emails. L3 my ass.
You're not allowed to sleep, you need to take control within 10-15 seconds.
And no, it doesn't turn off if there are no vehicles in front, but it does turn off above 45 MPH. On most highways you'll only be below 45 because of traffic.
Above 45 they have a separate L2 system that requires "normal" attentiveness.
Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California
#310Earlier quoted context omitted.
https://insideevs.com/news/575160/mercedes-accepts-legal-res... "once a driver turns on Drive Pilot, they are "no longer legally liable for the car's operation until it disengages." The publication goes so far as to say that a driver could actually pay zero attention to the road ahead, play on their mobile phones, and even watch a movie. If the car were to crash, Mercedes would be 100 percent responsible."
This explains the 40mph and other extreme restrictions
for now, that is. in German they call it "traffic jam pilot" Staupilot. they start L3 autonomy with the boring and tedious scenario first.
it's obvious they'll expand it to more and more freeway/highway driving scenarios, and from there grow into any out of town driving.
meanwhile Waymo and Tesla can take their bruises with downtown traffic and pedestrians and children and hand drawn road signs and dirty signs and poorly placed ones and whichever more crazy real life reality show surprise guests appear on stage...
I wouldn't (and I don't think you did but several others in such discussions do) snicker too much on Mercedes. they have a knack on getting a couple of car related things pretty right.