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Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

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Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really confused by this statement. I think queer culture can be countercultural depending. For example legislation is currently up in some states to ban dressing in a way outside your sex because drag queens exist, but even though drag queens have a tv show and a movie and stuff I'm sure it'll also probably scoop a butch lesbian or two or just a regular tomboy woman.

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I mean I'm talking about current laws on proposal to ban people from dressing differently without saying "only drag queens". The letter of the law bans butch lesbians and tomboys. These are adults.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#303

I'm pretty sure I've been existing in a number of counter-cultures for the last decade or two. These have been either linked to my identity or physical location, I couldn't have properly experienced them through consuming media on the subject. Certainly all required an active choice and/or lifestyle change on my part. Maybe people mean something else by counter-culture, but here are examples from my life: - Freelanci…

> There is a huge non-obvious culture of LQBTQIA Take a look at Twitter on pride month, even Raytheon changes their logo to a rainbow version. That stuff is so mainstream it hurts. It's a counterculture in Saudi Arabia where the logos don't change and they throw gay people off of buildings, but in the US/Europe it's part of the dominant culture.

> even Raytheon changes their logo to a rainbow version

And you think weapon manufacturers are sincerely concerned about discrimination and human rights in general?

Mainstream culture has been co-opting countercultures since decades. There are even words like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinkwashing_(LGBT) and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwashing.

Music genres like punk, rock, rap etc have been watered down in the same way. And many other things.

That's the opposite of going mainstream.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#304

The medium is the message dudes. At this point in history, what will qualify a true counterculture is NOT BEING ONLINE. Whatever the true counterculture will be, it won’t be subject to the Internet and its all-seeing eye. It won’t be made out of memes and flame wars. No matter what the political bent, we’re all very much a captive audience online. “Master’s house/master’s tools” and all that.

Excellent point, and Medium is the Message is an excellent book

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#305

I’m going to get flamed for this but at this point the closest we’re getting to counter culture is the exact opposite… “Trads”. Young people with super traditional values doing exactly the opposite of most of what you just listed. No one would seriously suggest the trendiest most mainstream supported or glorified lifestyles (van life, queerness, gig work) are counter culture…that IS the culture; there’s very little c…

I think this is ridiculous, LGBTQ is a minority. Trads are part of a waning majority. All evidence points towards LGBTQ always existing but just becoming more open. Trads being Counter Culture? That's the same double speak that gets us Citizens United and Right to Work. Where did these trads get their radically traditional values? From the majority.

It is a minority, but if I go into work and announce that I am trans and will now be transitioning and my name is now X, people will fall all over themselves be supportive and congratulating me. It literally happened recently when Chris became Christina at my work. But, if I come in and announce that I have decided to become Catholic or Evangelical or Mormon there will be a lot of awkward silence with maybe some "okaaaaayyy, anyway, let's continue with the planning for the next project..."

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#306

I’m going to get flamed for this but at this point the closest we’re getting to counter culture is the exact opposite… “Trads”. Young people with super traditional values doing exactly the opposite of most of what you just listed. No one would seriously suggest the trendiest most mainstream supported or glorified lifestyles (van life, queerness, gig work) are counter culture…that IS the culture; there’s very little c…

I think you're onto something, but you're missing a really key point of what makes a counterculture.

Consider the 'culture'. Whose side is the balance of power really behind? There are massive influences and money behind traditional christian and conservative values - they have a practical stranglehold on the politics of roughly half of America (by landmass). Is it really 'counter' the culture to embody those values in areas where they are the norm?

I think we don't have 'a' counterculture because we don't have 'a' culture, a unified one, in this country. Trad is as counterculture in California as radical queer/left ideology is in Alabama, and it gets muddier when you look at individual pockets of the opposite in rural areas or cities respectively.

If anything, this cultural split over core values would make anything else - 'radical centrism' for instance - a counterculture in and of itself; except, that tends to be the tack taken by a lot of media (NPR, Meet the Press, etc.). Can that be counterculture?

Alternatively, consider outside of mainstream politics. Co-op organizations, hacker/DIY circles, and protest movements are all certainly 'counter' the norm, but do they all have their own 'culture?' At best they have shared memes, no real ideological unity or even goddang clothing preferences.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is ridiculous, LGBTQ is a minority. Trads are part of a waning majority. All evidence points towards LGBTQ always existing but just becoming more open. Trads being Counter Culture? That's the same double speak that gets us Citizens United and Right to Work. Where did these trads get their radically traditional values? From the majority.

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> In a world where everyone wants to wear a non-conformist uniform, Trads are the new counter-culture.

They're non-conformists because they wear conformist clothing?

I'm not even going to address this "shoved" nonsense. No one shoved Tucker Carlson to go crazy about woke M&Ms.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#308
post #21

No, the counterculture is actually thriving. But many people just don't understand it yet, because of how, well, counter it is to their ideas about culture: its roots are now in conservatism. It currently seems to be cool and edgy amongst the kids to be alt right in pretty much exactly the same way that it was cool and edgy to be very liberal in the 60s. I'm not saying I agree with or subscribe to the tenets of conse…

Hah, kids today. I’m half expecting cigarettes to make a comeback. Imagine the reaction millennials would have to a handful of teens smoking in front of drop off at a high school.

They might be out of fashion in the US, but just go to a high school in Central / Eastern Europe...

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is ridiculous, LGBTQ is a minority. Trads are part of a waning majority. All evidence points towards LGBTQ always existing but just becoming more open. Trads being Counter Culture? That's the same double speak that gets us Citizens United and Right to Work. Where did these trads get their radically traditional values? From the majority.

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Because people are finally willing to speak up for their rights and let them be visible members of society?

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

honestly. how many months of rent was that boat? You are privileged ag

It seems you are out of touch with the liveaboard boat market. It's totally feasible to pick up a boat suitable for coastal cruising for a couple of people for $2,000. Budget another $2,000 for upgrades and you're good to go.

Any boat you pick up for $2000 will need $2000 just for new bottom paint. Then you can start addressing the rusted rigging and the broken inboard and the rotten sails and the failing mast step supports... why yes, I have been boat-shopping recently! :)
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