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YouTube has become the world's nanny

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Re: YouTube has become the world's nanny

#301
post #64

I was raised on tech. A third generation computer user, started writing software at seven under my father’s guidance. A Luddite I am not, but this doesn’t bode well for our future. YouTube is basically an indoctrination engine for white nationalism. It’s more or less what the right claims the American higher education system is for the left, only there’s no conspiracy fantasy to it. https://www.theregister.com/2022/1…

The actual findings, as reported in the very link you post: > "We found that YouTube's recommendation algorithm does not lead the vast majority of users down extremist rabbit holes, although it does push users into increasingly narrow ideological ranges of content in what we might call evidence of a (very) mild ideological echo chamber," the academics disclosed in a report for the Brookings Institution. > "We also fi…

“Pulls users slightly to the right”

So the indoctrination isn’t obvious? So it’s subtle? That makes it more pernicious, in my eyes.

I never said anything about a vast majority. To indoctrinate doesn’t mean convert an entire population, or even a percentage thereof. On the contrary, it refers to a process of teaching a person or group (of any size) to accept a set of beliefs uncritically. It doesn’t specify what degree of beliefs have to change, nor how rapidly, or severely.

YT recommends Fox, Shapiro, et al to kids watching anime, to adults whose sole interests are cat videos and programming tutorials. A bit different than a librarian suggesting books one might like.

And what happens if the librarian sees I’ve been checking out the likes of Mein Kampf, and makes recommendations based on that? Does indoctrination through multiple channels cancel itself out, or some? I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make there but it sounds a lot like “bad things can happen in other places so it’s acceptable if YouTube does bad things too.

One should consider the effect on those already radicalized in addition to the indoctrination of the non-radicalized when seeking to understand the political ramifications of such bias in algorithms. It’s not like they exist in a vacuum, after all.

edit: Add to that, on the topic of librarians, the decentralized nature of libraries and librarians ensures any effect of a single librarian will be limited to a local area. Don’t think we can say the same for YouTube algorithms.

Re: YouTube has become the world's nanny

#302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Covid didn't do anything to children, the reaction to covid from governments and parents did.

Well except to the ones that died from it.

While tragic, the numbers are so close to zero they are statistically zero.

Over 3 years, CDC has logged 650 total (~216 per year)[1] covid-related deaths for the 0-4 age group. 5-18 years is a grand total of 997 (~332 per year)[1].

These numbers rival fatalities that we don't even blink an eye at, such as automotive related deaths[2].

WHO statistics indicate the US loses around 20,000 - 30,000 children under the age of 5 every year[3].

None of this is to say child covid related deaths are not tragic - of course they are. But the numbers are so small that it makes little sense to worry about them.

[1] https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-Focus-...

[2] https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/child...

[3] https://www.who.int/data/gho/data/indicators/indicator-detai...

Re: YouTube has become the world's nanny

#303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>My kid is 10 and still doesn't know a single Youtuber by name Authentic curiosity - does your child not go to a normal school? In my experience you can literally detach your home from the internet and live without electricity, but the second your kids go to school they instantly know all the latest fads and videos and what not. To make it to 10 without being at least somewhat familiar with youtube through that expo…

Dunno if the school is a weird outlier, but none of my kid's friends are obsessed with Youtube influencers either. I haven't banned the kid from Youtube, just didn't specifically direct them there. Except for a few times. I think we looked up sign language tutorials (that was a big deal 3-4 years ago) and some drawing tutorials for watercolours. I think they see Youtube as a source for information instead of entertai…

I think your kid's school is a weird outlier. [USA here] All my 10 year old and her friends talk about is YouTube, Minecraft, Roblox, Fortnight, and so on, but primarily YouTube because it's the one unifying entertainment everyone has in common. The girls think the boys are stupid for being obsessed with Fortnight, and the Minecrafters sneer at the Robloxers, but everyone can agree on YouTube.

Re: YouTube has become the world's nanny

#304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eating is immensly boring and I hated it as a kid. I wish I had something to distract myself from the boredom of eating. Despite not having anything like that as a child I now, at 43, eat all my meals in front of a computer while gaming or watching or reading something.

Eating is immensely boring and I still hate it as an adult. The food is nice, but I really need to have my mind occupied by something even remotely useful/interesting during that time. Which is why I'm writing this comment now while eating my dinner.

I still wolf down my lunch at work so I can get back to the problem I was working on. Just like I wolfed down my dinner as an 11 year old so I could get back to my Commodore 64. Finally, a comment thread from the point of view (and empathy) of the immensely bored kid. Kids throughout history couldn't wait to get through dinner so they could go back to the TV or to the radio or to whatever other fun thing they wanted to do. There's nothing abnormal about this.

Re: YouTube has become the world's nanny

#305
post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those silly governments, making sure the medical system was slowly whittled down from something that was once actually pretty good at taking care of it's citizens to a system that forced/required society to completely grind to a halt from a pandemic because of exterior motives (votes, profits, etc.) Those silly large media/news companies, not being responsible and considering the results and after-effects of their al…

> Those silly governments, making sure the medical system was slowly whittled down from something that was once actually pretty good at taking care of it's citizens to a system that forced/required society to completely grind to a halt from a pandemic because of exterior motives (votes, profits, etc.) Lockdowns were almost universal, and also happened in countries where the healthcare systems are robust. Healthcare s…

The overrunning of the hospital system never happened. All sorts of impromptu covid facilities were constructed all around the country but never used. This was not because of the "flatten the curve" efforts - it just was not necessary.

We now know that, by far, the overwhelming majority of folks that needed medical treatment and/or died from covid had existing health - specifically respiratory - conditions that made them far more likely to succumb to the virus. The rest were elderly and at risk of all sorts of virus related deaths, including the common cold and flu.

We panicked, and overreacted as a society, and made an awful lot of mistakes and bad decisions. In the process we crushed a lot of people and children unnecessarily.

There's an entire generation of kids that are simply broken for life now. We just swept them into the next grade level and said "they'll make it up, don't worry"... except they are not making it up. There's a lot more to childhood than reading text books and solving multiplication problems - we robbed all of that for literally no good reason.

There's a lot of lessons to learn from the pandemic. Can we pass the final exam though? I think probably not...

Re: YouTube has become the world's nanny

#306
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>My kid is 10 and still doesn't know a single Youtuber by name Authentic curiosity - does your child not go to a normal school? In my experience you can literally detach your home from the internet and live without electricity, but the second your kids go to school they instantly know all the latest fads and videos and what not. To make it to 10 without being at least somewhat familiar with youtube through that expo…

[flagged]

> for not daring to allow their precious children to hear the words you and tube

The original commenter added more info in a reply in this thread that might've taken some of the steam out of this remark:

> I haven't banned the kid from Youtube, just didn't specifically direct them there. Except for a few times. I think we looked up sign language tutorials (that was a big deal 3-4 years ago) and some drawing tutorials for watercolours.

source: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34639799

Re: YouTube has become the world's nanny

#308

As a parent, screen time vs no screen time is a fine line that we have to continually renegotiate. Screens can be great, there is so much good information out there that can enrich our lives. I wouldn't go the "no screens ever" route because that's just being a luddite, robbing them of the change to experience, and acquire expertise in, the digital world that they will be interacting with for the rest of their lives.…

I found that "screens after N pm" worked well for us. It created a zone where there was no consideration, expectation, or backsliding onto screens. We also kept a VERY consistent bedtime, so that "N pm" to just before bedtime rituals timeblocked screens.

If you get on a screen at 4pm it can be hard to suggest putting the screen down to go outside or do something else.

Re: YouTube has become the world's nanny

#309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't notice it as an adult but kids are very observant. You impair yourself with any amount of alcohol.

Does this no answer your question about my child see me drinking beer? Or drinking coffee, if it's easier to not get distracted by the specific drink he's not allowed? My point was a bit unrelated to all this, so I'm just checking your original question's answered.

Yes. Thank you for the answer. Sorry for my curiosity. It was off topic.

Re: YouTube has become the world's nanny

#310

As a parent, screen time vs no screen time is a fine line that we have to continually renegotiate. Screens can be great, there is so much good information out there that can enrich our lives. I wouldn't go the "no screens ever" route because that's just being a luddite, robbing them of the change to experience, and acquire expertise in, the digital world that they will be interacting with for the rest of their lives.…

I still think that treating the problem as screen time is the wrong approach. It is too low resolution. What happens on the screen matters. Many parents end up using screen time as a very blunt tool because we simply lack better tools. But curating content as a family is close to unfeasible because it goes against sponsored algorithmic curation to which others are still exposed and once a kid is socialized they face…

I think "screen time" is this generation's "Dungeons and Dragons" boogeyman. Everyone feels like it's turning kids into zombies or hurting them in some way, but people really aren't articulating how. What's the mechanism, and how did it differ from similar kids entertainment of the past? Is "Algorithmically Generated Spiderman/Frozen Mashup #45501" or "Streamer babbling on about nothing" really that much worse for an 8 year old than the crappy cartoons I grew up on in the '80s?

Our household has pretty simple rules. Keep your grades high (straight A's, one B allowed) and kid can have as much screen time as she wants. Grades drop, and entertainment (including the dreaded screens) proportionately goes away until they come back up. That's it. We've had to limit her once, and she got the message and course corrected.

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