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New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

theautopian.com

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Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#301

Post by TheChaplain »

doctorwho42 wrote: post #264
robflynn wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention, with a car you get to decide your own schedule. If I want to take the train where I am, I have to be there at 4:30am or... well, that's it. That's the only time.

Poor argument for underfunded and purposefully stymied train development in the early to mid 20th century. Just look to Europe for what a large swath of the US could have if it invested in train infrastructure. Train good, car bad.

I live in Europe and commute by train. I need to order tickets 10 days ahead to get the cheapest price, and they're non-refundable as well as non-changeable.

That means I have fixed times, there is no flexibility if I wish to leave earlier or need to stay longer. If I do, I lose the initial charge plus a new 3 times more expensive ticket.

Ticket prices also varies depending on time, which means I have to leave really early and come back 13.5 hours later. And I'm exhausted.

1 out of 8 trains are cancelled or have severe delays, passengers are often rude or are being annoying in someway that makes it difficult to relax.

Trains are not the blessing you think they are.

Edit: Forgot to mention that I am lucky to live 10min away from the station. If I would live where I would like, it would mean 30-40min.

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#302

Post by TylerE »

quink wrote: post #299
shepherdjerred wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trains aren't really comparable to autonomous lanes. An autonomous car can travel on both normal roads, and in an autonomous lane. Roads are everywhere -- there's a road leading up to most people's place of residence. Trains rely on tracks which are not as common as roads. Trains are also not owned by individuals. Most people do not have a train station outside of their house.

> Trains are also not owned by individuals. Planes aren't either, what's your point? That people who need to go somewhere should be priced out of using _public_ infrastructure and require a personal investment currently in the tens of thousands for the cheapest autonomous cars? > Most people do not have a train station outside of their house. People have feet or a wheelchair, bicycles are a thing, trams and buses exi…

Plenty of privately owned planes, even privately owned airports. Not many privately owned railways beyond a few garden toys that are more like giant rideable models).

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#303

Post by [deleted] »

denimnerd42 wrote: post #23
herodotus wrote: post #2

I have a VW Golf and it has what it calls "adaptive cruise control". What makes it different from my older (simple) cruise control is that it will slow down and speed up again as necessary without my intervention. For example, if I set the speed to 70 mph and it gets close to a car ahead that is only going 65 mph, it will slow down and maintain what the software believes is a safe distance. Similarly, if a car in an…

I do love the ACC on my car. One of the worst parts of road trips is following cars you don't want to or can't pass. The ACC totally solves it. I don't see how you were really able to use cruise to follow another car at all before? Even 1mph too slow is not great and if the car in front isn't using any cruise control at all it could be 5mph too slow and then 5mph too fast.

[deleted]

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#304

Post by tempestn »

sokoloff wrote: post #107
Alex3917 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think what's interesting here is it's likely the first instance where Tesla FSD has been involved in an accident which affected other drivers. In a pileup like this it's basically never the fault of the front car, unless maybe if they are purposely causing the accident for insurance fraud or something. Maybe the driver will get cited for failing to maintain the minimum speed, but legally this isn't much different…

If I brake check someone on the highway, causing an accident, and it’s discovered that that’s what happened, I’d be pretty shocked* if the trailing driver was found responsible. That video looks like a combined lane change and brake check on the part of the Tesla. * and disappointed

Yes. Watching the second video, you can see the second car's brake lights come on quite quickly, given the Tesla's actions were completely strange and unexpected. Less than a second from when the Tesla cuts in front and starts braking to the vehicle behind hitting the brakes. They're definitely not at fault. Some of the cars that piled in behind were a different matter though. Some were able to stop while others didn't. Those ones must have been following too close and/or not paying enough attention.

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#305

Post by johannes1234321 »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #212
axelfontaine wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have this technology today. It's called trains.

Trains are great for moving lots of people efficiently and quickly from one place where they don't want to be to another place where they don't want to be.

With a good planning and a little time (unfortunately slightly in the decades) you can build infrastructure to be around the train network. Make sure you have a good connection from home location to a hub and infrastructure development around the hub for shops and offices as well as train lines to factories for factory workers as in Tokyo, combined with an integrated schedule as inspired by Switzerland and you get quite an attractive urban experience. But yes, that is a major shift from America's car focussed infrastructure.

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#306

Post by mastercheif »

modeless wrote: post #197
actionfromafar wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And here is the whole problem. It’s not good UX.

Automatic switching between FSD and Autopilot is not any kind of UX problem. There is no reason the driver needs to be aware of it. The driver does not need to take any action at all. The only difference is the type of road. But which software was in use is relevant here because people are trying to blame this on FSD. Whenever you're on a freeway, Autopilot is used automatically instead of FSD, so FSD had nothing to…

This sounds similar to Boeing's reasoning for not documenting the MCAS system on the 737 MAX.

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#307

Post by xyzzyz »

TingPing wrote: post #220
maerF0x0 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, but we already have a network of asphalt, not rails.

Maintenance cost of rail is significantly cheaper. Don't sink more into bad design.

It costs Amtrak over $300k a year to maintain a single mile of track on the Northeast corridor. For comparison, it costs around $30k to maintain a single mile of US interstate, i.e. only 10% of the cost to maintain rail track. In what sense rail is cheaper to maintain, exactly?

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#309

Post by masklinn »

scotty79 wrote: post #181
abduhl wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla’s FSD/autopilot does not act with intention as we understand it.

No intention, no fault. But definitely unsafe lane change, I think.

> No intention, no fault.

Nonsense.

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#310

Post by [deleted] »

bambax wrote: post #291

> You can’t program your way out of the problem with Level 2; in fact, the better the Level 2 system seems to be, the worse the problem gets. That problem is that human beings are simply no good at monitoring systems that do most of the work of a task and remaining ready to take over that task with minimal to no warning. This is incredibly true and obvious. It's likely people monitoring their car aren't doing anythin…

[deleted]
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