Live data from Hacker News

New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

theautopian.com

211–220 of 714 posts

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do love the ACC on my car. One of the worst parts of road trips is following cars you don't want to or can't pass. The ACC totally solves it. I don't see how you were really able to use cruise to follow another car at all before? Even 1mph too slow is not great and if the car in front isn't using any cruise control at all it could be 5mph too slow and then 5mph too fast.

> One of the worst parts of road trips this, so much > how you were really able to use cruise to follow another car at all before? not op, but you probably just don't, you disengage, cuss out loud and follow them manually until they come to a decision to stop hogging the lane. PS that's also why I hate the newer-style blocked-off HOV lanes here in sfbay, which seem to be a total trap and a magnet for idiots who drive…

There is a reason that blocked-off HOV lanes are used: research has shown that slugging[1] will form spontaneously- and achieve the goal of actually reducing total number of car trips- it seems to need a bunch of things[2], and one of them is the HOV lanes be blocked off rather than easily accessible. Barrier separation discourages cheating, which in turn rewards drivers who carry slugs rather than just cheat, and rewards slugs with faster, better commutes. But the general consensus of road designers is that you need barriers on your HOV lanes to get slugging, and that without those barriers you don't really see as much of a reduction in car-trips- you will see some increase in planned car-pooling, but the slugging is where much of the reduction comes from, because its so much more convenient for everyone to do it anonymously at your own pace rather than having to tether you schedule to 1-2 specific other people. (One of you has a doctor's appointment? One of you has a sick kid? One of you oversleeps by 15 minutes? Now you are all screwed, one way or another. One of you can't get to work, and the rest of you can't take the HOV lanes. Planned car-pooling just doesn't seem to work long-term.)

Note that all of the research I'm aware of is US based, and I have no idea whether it generalizes to other cultures.

1: http://www.slug-lines.com/slugging/about_slugging.asp

2: Houston's Katy Freeway went from HOV-3 to HOT-2 (and from 1 lane to 2) and seems to have gutted its slugging culture. People weren't willing to get into a strangers car anonymously by themselves (or have a single stranger in their car), it looks like 3 people, all strangers, is culturally different from 2. Also, HOT lanes seem to weaken slugging, even in DC where it was most strongly entrenched, the switch to HOT lanes seems to have weakened the culture, because people say 'I'll just pay today' rather than pick someone up. So it can spontaneously form, and when it does can be quite powerful, but is very fragile.

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#212

I'm still waiting for autonomous-only lanes. For extremely long and boring highways (usually full of trucks), this just seems like the logical conclusion of all self-driving tech to me. Dedicate one lane to self-driving, have the vehicles all on autonomous mode, and have them keep enough distance so their braking performance prevents them from crashing in an unexpected stop. You should be able to literally just sleep…

We have this technology today. It's called trains.

Trains are great for moving lots of people efficiently and quickly from one place where they don't want to be to another place where they don't want to be.

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#213

I have a VW Golf and it has what it calls "adaptive cruise control". What makes it different from my older (simple) cruise control is that it will slow down and speed up again as necessary without my intervention. For example, if I set the speed to 70 mph and it gets close to a car ahead that is only going 65 mph, it will slow down and maintain what the software believes is a safe distance. Similarly, if a car in an…

I might be missing something but wouldn't it be perfectly fine to override it in the exact same cases you'd override regular cruise control? Sure, many of those might not be necessary ; but if you do it, the experience shouldn't be any different from what you're used to, no?

I think their point being that, being adaptive, it lulls you into a sense that "oh, the system will see the car ahead slowing down and will slow down my own car for me."

Older "dumb" cruise control you had to be ready for the brake at all times — there was no need to second guess the system.

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have this technology today. It's called trains.

Trains are great for moving lots of people efficiently and quickly from one place where they don't want to be to another place where they don't want to be.

Said no one in Europe, ever.

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#215
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No intention, no fault. But definitely unsafe lane change, I think.

How convenient for Tesla. I doubt we would think this way if your wheel flew off your civic because of a design flaw in the axle.

Why is this being downvoted? Intent isn't everything. While it is important, design flaws are worth getting the book thrown at you over.

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have this technology today. It's called trains.

yes, but we already have a network of asphalt, not rails.

Here is a map of the rail network in North America (just to confirm that it does not exist /s)

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/mapviewer/index.html?webmap=96ec...

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#217

I'm still waiting for autonomous-only lanes. For extremely long and boring highways (usually full of trucks), this just seems like the logical conclusion of all self-driving tech to me. Dedicate one lane to self-driving, have the vehicles all on autonomous mode, and have them keep enough distance so their braking performance prevents them from crashing in an unexpected stop. You should be able to literally just sleep…

We have this technology today. It's called trains.

All of Elon Musk's grand ideas for revolutionizing terrestrial transportation (that aren't laughably unworkable like miles long vacuum enclosures) are just 'trains but much smaller and with tires so that we lose all efficiencies and gain all of the drawbacks'. So this fits perfectly.

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#218
post #187
post #82

This is an honest question here but why is the pile up so bad if driving conditions were ideal? The next 6 drivers were not keeping a safe distance or paying attention?

I think it’s mostly caused by the folks making abrupt lane changes as the Tesla slows down. You can see people start to swerve into other lanes instead of just slowing down (they are looking in their side mirrors to avoid the slow car and sometimes even accelerate). I’ve had this happen where you are cruising at a speed and the person in front of you serves to avoid a slow car and now you lose all of the time to reac…

> Side tangent, I love watching car crash videos.

Your and my YouTube feed algorithms....

They kind of creep me out when it is a crash that was not avoidable. But, boy, most of the crashes have me talking to the computer display, "What are you thinking? You have no stopping distance at all, I know exactly what's coming up in about 3 seconds!"

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trains are great for moving lots of people efficiently and quickly from one place where they don't want to be to another place where they don't want to be.

Said no one in Europe, ever.

In the US, 200 years is a long time, and the train doesn't go where you're going. In Europe, 200 km is a long distance, and it might.

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have this technology today. It's called trains.

yes, but we already have a network of asphalt, not rails.

Maintenance cost of rail is significantly cheaper. Don't sink more into bad design.
Post reply on HN