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Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

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Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#301

Young Americans are perfectly willing to do a half-assed job when conditions suck and pay is low. They are harder to exploit than foreign workers and previous generations because the "hard work" mentality really doesn't last when the rewards get less with every generation. They will either leave a job whenever they feel like they've had enough or just phone it in for a good long while giving shitty performance for sh…

The "hard work" mentality is gone because companies like Amazon purposefully optimize their 'blue collar' jobs to force churn so they can dangle benefits with vesting periods nobody will get to, and have an outsourced hiring firm handle all the paperwork.

That's why there were news stories about them "running out of people to employ." Word gets around eventually. Especially if the economy is doing well, most people will not want to work for you.

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#302

just looked at that youtube channel... holy cow the amount of content coming out is huge. surely its not just 1 guy doing all the research _and_ narrating? he probably has a team? Edit: wow ok it really is 1 guy. (albeit good patreon revenue to pay for research time) from patreon: > My name is Jon and I make videos on the Asianometry YouTube channel. I started the channel as a way to share things that I've learned ab…

Says he's one guy != he's actually one guy. Almost certainly has an editor, a script proofer, etc.

It also seems highly unlikely he's only making money from ads and patreon. A lot of youtubers get money under the table to astroturf.

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#303
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't corroborate this at all. I come from a CS background. If you leave school and enter the workforce at SAS, you will be at a disadvantage insofar as you are looking for a workplace that you hope to learn something from or one that you hope reinforces good engineering practices. The semiconductor industry, from the vantage point of an experienced systems thinker, reinforces awful engineering practices. All the t…

You're right, we should encourage the new generation to all strive to become overpaid mediocre SWEs only in it for the quick cash, because the world doesn't have enough shitty food delivery apps. Hopefully I've painted this with a broad enough brush. There is more to a fulfilling career than money. In fact, an entire generation of SWEs who forgot the concepts of simplicity and efficiency, coding a never-ending avalan…

Rather than tearing down SWEs for being economically rational actors, how about starting a semiconductor company where people are paid more?

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#304
post #164
post #10

I worked at the Samsung A2/S2 lines in ATX with a bunch of young Americans back around 2011-2013. I would say they absolutely would. It's a very high-energy place with more going on than you can ever hope to keep track of. Even if the technology doesn't interest you, the cultural interactions should. You could have some days with Japanese, Koreans and Americans translating 3-ways in a conference room. Opportunities f…

I can't corroborate this at all. I come from a CS background. If you leave school and enter the workforce at SAS, you will be at a disadvantage insofar as you are looking for a workplace that you hope to learn something from or one that you hope reinforces good engineering practices. The semiconductor industry, from the vantage point of an experienced systems thinker, reinforces awful engineering practices. All the t…

> The semiconductor industry sources heavily from the defense sector

What does this part mean, exactly? Are photolithography lasers just repurposed Naval anti-aircraft lasers or something?

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And why the reference to Geordies - natives of Newcastle - when the plant is in Sunderland? Google maps tells me those two places are only 14.3 miles away. So 1) that's pretty understandable to conflate and 2) a lot of people from Newcastle probably commute there.

14 miles in British is something like 200 miles in American.

In Britain, 100 miles is a long distance. In the US, 100 years is a long time.

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#306
post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, we should encourage the new generation to all strive to become overpaid mediocre SWEs only in it for the quick cash, because the world doesn't have enough shitty food delivery apps. Hopefully I've painted this with a broad enough brush. There is more to a fulfilling career than money. In fact, an entire generation of SWEs who forgot the concepts of simplicity and efficiency, coding a never-ending avalan…

Rather than tearing down SWEs for being economically rational actors, how about starting a semiconductor company where people are paid more?

-> SWEs for being economically rational actors

It's okay just to say that you like the money. You don't always have to use the largest words. It's also okay for someone to say that software engineers are paid lots of money. Perhaps too much.

-> how about starting a semiconductor company where people are paid more?

I'm assuming you're being facetious given the enormous logistical and financial costs of starting a somewhat up-to-date semiconductor company. But, maybe that's the point.

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#307
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nissan ran a very successful car manufacturing facility for many years in the U.K. This kind of cultural adaptation is exactly how they did it. And it turns out that Geordies were more than capable of executing “The Nissan Way”.

Why "ran" in the past tense? The plant is still running. And why the reference to Geordies - natives of Newcastle - when the plant is in Sunderland? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Motor_Manufacturing_U...

Sorry, yes, it’s still running. There’s long term strategic questions over it, but those are nothing to do with the actual work product.

And I’m loving the extremely detailed Tyneside vs Sunderland debate you managed to kick off.

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#308
post #164
post #10

I worked at the Samsung A2/S2 lines in ATX with a bunch of young Americans back around 2011-2013. I would say they absolutely would. It's a very high-energy place with more going on than you can ever hope to keep track of. Even if the technology doesn't interest you, the cultural interactions should. You could have some days with Japanese, Koreans and Americans translating 3-ways in a conference room. Opportunities f…

I can't corroborate this at all. I come from a CS background. If you leave school and enter the workforce at SAS, you will be at a disadvantage insofar as you are looking for a workplace that you hope to learn something from or one that you hope reinforces good engineering practices. The semiconductor industry, from the vantage point of an experienced systems thinker, reinforces awful engineering practices. All the t…

-> A close friend (from a non-CS engineering background) I know to still be at SAS. We don't talk about finances, but at around 8 years in, I estimate that he just recently (since COVID) crossed the six figure threshold. He's in a fairly senior role. Meanwhile: "What's x86?" — a direct quote from a conversation not too long ago.

-> He has no real professional experience outside of SAS, was not set up in an environment that rewards "extracurricular" experience, so he doesn't have any of that, either, and he's effectively stuck as a result of the "golden" handcuffs that the path at SAS has led him on.

-> Don't work in the semiconductor industry, folks. What you can expect to be is a monkey pressing buttons on a machine (that your supervisor—and their supervisor—doesn't understand, and nor will you; you pass butter). Make no mistake: there's an abundance of low-hanging fruit. But you won't have, as Gerry Weinberg put it, "permission" to pick it.

-> By all means, if your prospects/ambitions look to be something like working for the state/federal government, learning nothing over your career, and cashing mediocre checks for doing mediocre work along the way, then by all means go for it. Otherwise, it is likelier that you'll be hobbled by your time in the industry. And not for no good reason. If I'm evaluating someone and it came up that they'd done any significant time in the world of semiconductors, the net impression it'd have on me (having hash an insider's view of it) would be one worse than if they said that they'd just gotten their degree and had spent the last N years flipping burgers, cf Dan Luu

All I'm understanding from this is not "don't go into the semiconductor industry" but rather that you're an awful friend to be trash talking your friend. It seems like you just called their career a waste of time and implied your friend to be more poor (since when was 6 figures not a decent amount of money?) than you and less knowledgeable ('what is x86'). I'm sure you'll agree that your friend is neither poor nor stupid, as you seem to imply here for their working in the semiconductor industry. I'm sure your friend would be delighted to know that they're a monkey pressing buttons without any knowledge of what's going on or that you estimate a fast food worker has a better background for transitioning to software engineering.

You haven't talked to your friend about finances, but you can magically estimate their savings? I understand that you might be able estimate within an order of magnitude based on context, but you don't know how much this person has saved nor do you seem to consider that they might spend their money on personal emergencies, sick family members, or kids. That your estimation of your friend's savings should be taken as evidence for poor compensation in the semiconductor industry is laughable, honestly. But, hey, I at least appreciate your earnest opinion.

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#309
post #164
post #10

I worked at the Samsung A2/S2 lines in ATX with a bunch of young Americans back around 2011-2013. I would say they absolutely would. It's a very high-energy place with more going on than you can ever hope to keep track of. Even if the technology doesn't interest you, the cultural interactions should. You could have some days with Japanese, Koreans and Americans translating 3-ways in a conference room. Opportunities f…

I can't corroborate this at all. I come from a CS background. If you leave school and enter the workforce at SAS, you will be at a disadvantage insofar as you are looking for a workplace that you hope to learn something from or one that you hope reinforces good engineering practices. The semiconductor industry, from the vantage point of an experienced systems thinker, reinforces awful engineering practices. All the t…

Dan Luu worked in semiconductors and spoke quite highly of his time there.

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google maps tells me those two places are only 14.3 miles away. Are you American? That's a long way in terms of cultural differences in the UK.

Are you American? Why would you assume that? That's a long way in terms of cultural differences in the UK. Sure, but it's pretty insignificant to someone not in or familiar with the UK. Which is the vast majority of planet earth.

Most of planet earth used to be under UK rule
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