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Ten years after the Higgs, physicists face the nightmare of finding nothing else

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Re: Ten years after the Higgs, physicists face the nightmare of finding nothing else

#301
post #40

James Clerk Maxwell united electricity and magnetism with a pen and paper. Einstein discovered special and general relativity in the same way. Has theoretical physics advanced enough now that such pen and paper discoveries are all but over, and the only way to continue making progress is to dedicate an ever larger share of the global economy's productive capacity to building larger and more expensive experiments? Wha…

And how much time Maxwell or Einstein spent on their research and how much time on chasing grants and tenure positions? Were they required to publish X papers a year, target assigned by some university manager? Were they forced to amuse and be nice for their students, so they will look good on yearly teacher's assessment?

I think we lack a "let a thousand flowers bloom" approach here. Just create a way to fund lots of individual researchers and teams with small grants to study whatever they find interesting, with no crazy deadlines, credential requirements, publish-or-perish demands, administrative overhead, etc. It doesn't matter if 999/1000 just produce garbage, if the one remaining hits something big. I suspect modern science is like a gold rush, with lots of people flocking around a few fad areas, and o lot of the search space uninhabited, because if you stray out of the fad-topics, you get no advisor, no funding, no lab, nothing.

Re: Ten years after the Higgs, physicists face the nightmare of finding nothing else

#302
post #275
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem here is that the most favoured hypothesis currently is "there is nothing there that can be discovered with any accelerator that can be built using less than 80% of the world's GDP over the next 50 years." And all the valuable "nothing" we currently find just supports the hypothesis and that there is no point in formulating additional hypotheses.

I'm curious, what are the experiments we could run if we had for example 80% of the world's GDP?

Lots of Grand Unified Theory candidates become interesting at extremely high energy levels and many of them assume the various fundamental forces will merge. You can test these theories at sufficiently high energy levels.

Re: Ten years after the Higgs, physicists face the nightmare of finding nothing else

#303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, we need to take that money from somewhere. There is only so much labor on the planet, and that is what the money is buying in the end. (I'm including corruption in labor here) Some labor is more valuable than others, and we can debate how much we want to spend, but in the end if we have someone do X they could do Y instead. Sometimes Y is sit around doing nothing, sometimes it is valuable. The problem here is w…

Better to just create trillions out of nothing and use them to buy financial assets, now that's a good use of money! ( https://www.ecb.europa.eu/mopo/implement/app/html/index.en.h... )

false dichotomy.

Just because you can name some other bad use of money that we do doesn't make some other one good.

Re: Ten years after the Higgs, physicists face the nightmare of finding nothing else

#304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not particularly exotic; it’s phenomenology aka continental philosophy. (Many kinds of Buddhism known to the west are actually repackaged European philosophy; this was intentionally done in Asia so it’d be easier to sell back to us.)

> Many kinds of Buddhism known to the west are actually repackaged European philosophy Schopenhauer was interested in eastern philosophy. There is certainly a thread of Buddhist thought in some European philosophy. I don't think it's at all reasonable to suggest that Asian Buddhists (in Asia) deliberately produced a formulation of Buddhism to appeal to Western tastes. Rather, Buddhist teachers in the West tried to fi…

Thai Theravada and Japanese Zen (and State Shinto) were reinvented in the 1800s to look more European and incorporate Romanticism because they knew if Europeans showed up and you didn't have a European-style religion, they'd declare you savages and colonize you. It more or less worked.

See "The Making of Buddhist Modernism", review here: https://vividness.live/the-making-of-buddhist-modernism

That didn't happen in Tibet, although it modernized later with a marketing campaign resulting in everyone vaguely associating the Dalai Lama with "compassion" and "ethics".

Re: Ten years after the Higgs, physicists face the nightmare of finding nothing else

#305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently the next-gen LHC replacement will cost on the order of $100 billion. As a society (US, EU, or global), we can certainly 'afford it', but no-one is going to be writing that check anytime soon.

Yet Musk was prepared to spend $42B on the twitter purchase which would almost have been a null-op for the world in comparison to funding basically any kind of venture or experiment with the same amount of money... If only Musk was more interested in the universe's structure :)

>Yet Musk was prepared to spend $42B on the twitter purchase

Musk wasn't donating $42B to Twitter. He raised capital to purchase Twitter with the aim of actually making a return on that money.

A better example is someone like Warren Buffet donating ~$50B dollars to charity instead of building another particle collider. If only Buffet was more interested in the universe's structure eh.

[1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattdurot/2022/06/14/warren-buf...

Re: Ten years after the Higgs, physicists face the nightmare of finding nothing else

#306

Good. Now maybe physicists can start solving the riddle of consciousness.

The problem of consciousness is outside the subject area of physics. Chemistry - maybe, but more likely cell biology and information theory. Even more likely it will remain an issue of philosophy rather than (positive) science.

Unless consciousness is a field we haven't figured out how to measure

Re: Ten years after the Higgs, physicists face the nightmare of finding nothing else

#307
post #278

Isn't it funny that the single particle that they 'found' happened to be the one governments and investors gave them billions in hopes of finding. Nothing else, just the single particle to validate the entire existence of the LHC. I wonder what it would do for future investments if they didn't find it? But hey, I probably don't understand the science like 99.999999% of people. It's so technical that you just have to…

What exactly are you implying? That if they were given money to discover supersymmetry, they would've discovered it instead of Higgs? Well, discovery of supersymmetrical particles _was_ one of the main goals alongside discovering Higgs, and none were discovered so far. Or maybe you think that Higgs discovery was a hoax?

[deleted]

Re: Ten years after the Higgs, physicists face the nightmare of finding nothing else

#308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An economist might notate this as "0.000 ≻ 0.00". Curly comparison operators like "≻" (U+227B SUCCEEDS) are often used specifically to avoid ambiguity with traditional comparison operators like ">". See: https://www.oeconomist.com/blogs/daniel/wp-content/uploads/2...

Heh, I think a barely different glyph introduces more ambiguity than it solves. On my screen it’s effectively the same glyph but now with “oh, well it’s actually different.”

I noticed that they are pretty similar in some fonts at small sizes, but in traditional math fonts and handwritten, these operators tend to be very "curly" and easy to distinguish.

Re: Ten years after the Higgs, physicists face the nightmare of finding nothing else

#309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better to just create trillions out of nothing and use them to buy financial assets, now that's a good use of money! ( https://www.ecb.europa.eu/mopo/implement/app/html/index.en.h... )

false dichotomy. Just because you can name some other bad use of money that we do doesn't make some other one good.

You're talking about opportunity costs - it's not a false dichotomy at all. Spending trillions on financial assets mean they are not spent on other things.

Re: Ten years after the Higgs, physicists face the nightmare of finding nothing else

#310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Stagnation of scientific fields is normal and can last many years. In that time, little anomalies pile up, are swept under the rug, and largely forgotten. To admit anomalies can ruin careers, after all. Could not be more wrong for Particle Physics. An Anomaly could define your career and herald a Nobel Prize. That's exactly what we're looking for. We desperately want to find anomalies, not hide them.

Really? Because the article seems to say the complete opposite in multiple instances. "Oh hey this thing doesn't match what is expected according to the standard model but yeah the standard model is tots fine bro." > For example, in 2017, physicists working with LHCb, one of four large particle detectors fed by the LHC, found that B mesons, particles that contain a heavy bottom quark, decay more often to an electron…

My understanding is that we currently don't have enough data to be sure that the B meson anomaly is real, and not just a statistical fluctuation - it is only a few standard deviations away from what is expected. (A few more years of data should resolve the question of whether it is real, one way or the other.)
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