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Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

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Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#301

Post by tim333 »

network2592 wrote: post #134
sorlak wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK has never required a vaccine to enter. The only difference is that non-vaccinated individuals need to quarantine on arrival.

Thanks for the clarification. At the very least, the requirement for Djokovic to quarantine might mess with the timing. He might not be able to train right after arriving.

Present UK regs you can get out on day 5 if you do 'test to release.' Before that you are supposed to isolate at home. Though if he rented a home with a tennis court...

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#302

Post by tim333 »

The Australian newsreaders leaving their mics on during the break while saying what they thought of Djokovic was funny. I imagine it sums up the attitude of most Australians ("lying, sneaky a**hole" https://inews.co.uk/news/world/australian-news-presenters-no...)

While I think the rules not allowing unvaccinated people in are excessive at a time when there's no shortage of covid in Australia, rules are rules.

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#303

Post by underwater »

mostertoaster wrote: post #279
underwater wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you catch Omicron, and are double vaccinated, which is almost the best case, then you're still much more likely to die from COVID than the flu.

Uhh so what? You’re also very unlikely to die from the flu. We’re going to have a brave new world soon, where the cities will build walls and not let anyone in and will live in their little prison apartments, getting everything shipped to them, and those outside will just be living their lives, hanging out with friends, having babies, and then they will die. Survival is not the goal. Living is.

You literally asked "Is omnicron worse than a common cold?" That is the question I responded to.

Now you're shifting to a different point, which is that you think that restrictions are too severe. That a perfectly valid argument to make, but I'm not going to engage with it here.

I take issue with people deliberately peddling misinformation about COVID severity, because they think it helps their argument around the response. It is intellectually dishonest, and has caused actual harm.

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#304

Post by Mikeb85 »

tim333 wrote: post #300
Mikeb85 wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. EU recognizes past infections, not sure why places like Canada and Australia refuse to. It's pretty clear it's not about science at this point. For example, in Canada some provinces have created exemptions for people who have COVID to be able to work, while firing those who are unvaccinated... Science has been completely tossed by the wayside because of politics and our vengeful population.

The EU only recognises past infections for a limited time. I think it varies by country but in the range six to nine months.

So same as 2 shots...

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#305

Post by celeduc »

dang wrote: post #293
celeduc wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"rest of the world" being you , apparently.

Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar. We're trying to avoid that here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I'll make a concerted effort not to feed the trolls, but categorically false statements must be either confronted or removed.

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#306

Post by dang »

celeduc wrote: post #305
dang wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar. We're trying to avoid that here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I'll make a concerted effort not to feed the trolls, but categorically false statements must be either confronted or removed.

People are allowed to be wrong. If you want to do something about that, the thing to do (on this site) is to respectfully provide correct information.

I don't know what you mean by "confronted", but usually people have in mind something like the online callout/shaming culture. We don't want that there. Snark, name-calling, flaming, putdowns, and so on, are against the HN guidelines. They're also not in your interest, because (a) they don't persuade, and (b) they discredit your view in the eyes of neutral observers.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#307

Post by MrRiddle »

JPKab wrote: post #289
nexxer wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's had covid twice, once in June 2020 and now in December 2021, a good example of immunity by infection not being worth much.

This is illogical. Did he die? Did he suffer severe symptoms? No. What makes this different than a vaccinated person contracting the virus and having mild/no symptoms? You took a vaccine that has not been updated since it was created to target the Alpha variant. He caught a previous variant, and both of you are not protected from contracting omicron. However, both of you are at far lower risk of severe illness due to…

Looks like people are so overcompensating antivaxxers that logic went out the window. Everyone is so polarized that I’m losing faith in returning to normal life. And honestly, both sides are appearing to be equally bad, equally engulfed in their own black and white world.

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#308

Post by bjowen »

guilhas wrote: post #111

Is in the public interest of Australian people for natural immunity to be recognized and this spectacle be over In comparison they are allowed to have cricket matches with hundreds of thousands of spectators packing

Those people are required to and have taken vaccine in order to attend. 95% of Australians have at this point. There are check-ins and density limits and other mandates to limit the spread, and it is still spreading at a rate faster than testing can keep up.

Post infection immunity does not of itself prevent taking vaccine, and having both is the most protective, though their individual effectiveness is comparable [0]. Acknowledging post-infection immunity in place of vaccine-mediated immunity doesn’t make sense as a policy for the country: it doesn’t materially affect many people, it decrease the number of susceptible people at all, and the vaccines are free to all and easily available to most.

In the case of the tennis player, if the recent tests are correctly recorded, and there is significant reason to doubt that they are[1], this is the second time he has been infected with COVID [2].

None of this is to say that the Australian federal government hasn’t embarrassed itself at every opportunity with this fiasco. The visa was issued apparently in contradiction to its own rules, the player was allowed to travel anyway and treated badly, overnight staff at the airport had to decide to overrule a departmental error and trigger this circus, breaching procedural fairness in the process - and then instead of making a prompt decision, the minister waited until the Friday night TV news had started to announce the decision to cancel, in what appears to be an effort to manage the message. Atrocious. Inept. Governing by press release to distract from their failings.

0: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC8475821/

1: https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/novak-djokovic-we...

2: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-24/novak-djokovic-charit...

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#309

Post by JPKab »

MrRiddle wrote: post #307
JPKab wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is illogical. Did he die? Did he suffer severe symptoms? No. What makes this different than a vaccinated person contracting the virus and having mild/no symptoms? You took a vaccine that has not been updated since it was created to target the Alpha variant. He caught a previous variant, and both of you are not protected from contracting omicron. However, both of you are at far lower risk of severe illness due to…

Looks like people are so overcompensating antivaxxers that logic went out the window. Everyone is so polarized that I’m losing faith in returning to normal life. And honestly, both sides are appearing to be equally bad, equally engulfed in their own black and white world.

Most people are pretty calm about it. It's just there's very noisy fringe elements who are dramatically overrepresented online.

It blows my mind how many otherwise smart people think that online comments are remotely representative of the real world. How many times have you seen a prominent online personality see racist/misogynistic comments from a handful of trolls and then claim that "racists are everywhere!"

It's the same with this.

Frankly, the biggest source of derangement is fear that is utterly detached from reality. Gallup's polling has revealed that 40% of self-identified Democrats think that 50% of people who catch COVID require hospitalization. The rest were slightly less wrong, but still far, far higher than the reality. The actual number is between 1-5%. It's the mirror image of immediately after 9/11, when self-identified Republicans dramatically overestimated the terrorism threat.

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#310

Post by ls15 »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #211
ls15 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He could have just gotten vaccinated. He could have just gotten carreer-ending myocarditis from the vaccination. The risk in his cohort to get it from vaccination is higher than getting it from covid, which he already had. How is that mandate justified?

The vaccine risk is mostly for Moderna, and I'm not sure it is higher than getting it from covid. Moderna is not the only vaccine out there. There are slews of other effects of Covid that would definitely end his career. I have little patience for folks that refuse to get vaccinated. You are more likely to catch and therefore spread covid (possibly killing others) and much more likely to add to the stress on the heal…

> There are slews of other effects of Covid that would definitely end his career.

He already had covid that did not end his career.

> I have little patience for folks that refuse to get vaccinated. You are more likely to catch and therefore spread covid (possibly killing others) and much more likely to add to the stress on the healthcare system when you get covid. If you do decide not to vaccinate after knowing this and understanding that the risks from a vaccine are less than the risks from the virus, I fully expect you to stay home and minimize your effect on others. This is partially so that folks that cannot be vaccinated don't have to suffer because you won't do your part.

When the vaccine efficacy against transmission is as low as it is, this makes little sense to me. Covid vaccines seem mostly good for protecting yourself individually from severe disease and death. For everything else they don't seem to do much. Not enough to mandate them and for guilt-tripping the hesitant. Folks that cannot be vaccinated will catch omicron regardless of the vaccination status of the rest of the population.

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