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Hospital exec says employees are walking off the job

cnn.com

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Re: Hospital exec says employees are walking off the job

#301

Post by lamontcg »

iamadog55 wrote: post #208
lamontcg wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm reluctant to leverage such language, but this is an appeal to authority. Then so was the comment it was responding to

Let's dissect this: >I think it's notable that there is substantial resistance to vaccines even among health care workers. So here, the poster asserts that they find it notable, as in worthy of remark, that within the domain of healthcare people are opting out. The poster does not make any conjecture or assertions aside from that, the poster does not lean on any position nor support one from the authority of the "hea…

Oh look a 6 hour old account splitting hairs and playing semantic games.

I have real work to do.

Re: Hospital exec says employees are walking off the job

#302

Post by muaytimbo »

papito wrote: post #106
muaytimbo wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume we're talking about Bezos here, Amazon pays above the prevailing wage in most markets and if workers don't feel they are being treated fairly they have the choice to work elsewhere. Bezos is flying to space not "just because", he's flying to space in order to build another company we all might benefit from, like AWS or Prime. He's flying to space because he's earned it, by improving a lot of developers and c…

This fetishizing of the rich is exactly the problem. How dare these socialists take this wealth and give it to the unthankful moochers! No one is talking about "punishing" the ultra-rich, but I would like to see them pay around my percentage tax rate, which is 28% - that's just Federal. I challenge you to find a wealthy person paying anywhere near that. The top tax rate in the US, decades ago, was 90%. It effectively…

It's not fetishizing the rich it's acknowledging that they are entitled to the spend the money they've earned in the way that they want. Bezos wants to build a space company.

I'd like you both to pay the same tax rate too, 0%. You should feel entitled to keep all the money you've earned, so should he.

Bezos doesn't pay the rate you do because his income is lower than yours. It was about 90K/year. His has paper riches, stock. Which is worth nothing until you find a buyer and agree on a price.

It's surprising you mentioned companies not reinvesting in the context of Amazon, which is almost the perfect example of a company reinvesting all of their profits in pursuit of a long term vision. That's why Amazon never posts a profit, they just expand.

Re: Hospital exec says employees are walking off the job

#304

Post by rufus_foreman »

dageshi wrote: post #47

All the people who hate the masks and hate the vaccines never really have any answer to this, what happens when the hospitals fill to capacity or the staff give up from exhaustion. No answers.

The answer they were given was "Two weeks to flatten the curve".

Re: Hospital exec says employees are walking off the job

#305

Post by joshuamorton »

908B64B197 wrote: post #281
tejohnso wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One reason some hospital staff say they are resisting COVID-19 vaccination is because it's so new and not yet fully approved by the FDA. > "I want to see more testing done," she says. "It took a long time to get a flu vaccine, and we made a COVID vaccine in 6 months. I want to know, before I start putting something into my body, that the testing is done." > Many of her co-workers share her feelings, she said. Would…

> Would have been nice if the article included responses to these concerns. Plenty of shaming about how dangerous passing covid to patients can be, but I didn't see anything that actually addresses the confidence problem. Here's one simple question: who's liable for the damages/complications from the vaccine. The answer: it's complicated. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/16/covid-vaccine-side-effects-c... https://fortune…

> But why should it be? If you trust your product, that's a no-brainer to cover the consumer for damages. If you don't...

This assumes a lot of things about the US legal system that aren't really true. A company can get sued for anything. And the cost of litigation is nontrivial. In the US, by default, each party is liable for their own litigation costs. This means that if 20000 people decide to sue Pfizer (you know, 1% of 1% of the vaccinated in the US), Pfizer now has to deal with the litigation costs of tens of thousands of lawsuits. Even if they win every single one, they're paying for hundreds, or even thousands, of lawyer-years in billables.

And while many of those might just be people hoping for a quick buck, or people with legitimate concerns who are ultimately mistaken, some will be agenda-driven people with funding to make the cases last, and whose goal is to make Pfizer look bad, because those people think vaccines are dangerous and the people who make them should be punished.

And Pfizer is on the hook for all of that even if there are no damages. Zero, zilch.

Re: Hospital exec says employees are walking off the job

#306

Post by sjdrc »

dividefuel wrote: post #184
mumblemumble wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The disgruntled nurses I know don't want more money anywhere near as much as they want things like lunch and bathroom breaks. Money can't buy happiness, but not being able to take care of your basic bodily needs can absolutely buy unhappiness.

My spouse is just starting her first RN job. As part of the onboarding, an administrator/HR person called and strongly suggested that she sign a paper waiving one of her 30 minute lunch periods. Even though the paper says "I am not being coerced", it's pretty clear that signing it is necessary for getting the job.

How can a document like that even be legal? What reason would a worker have to willingly sign away their rights?

Re: Hospital exec says employees are walking off the job

#307

Post by 908B64B197 »

joshuamorton wrote: post #305
908B64B197 wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Would have been nice if the article included responses to these concerns. Plenty of shaming about how dangerous passing covid to patients can be, but I didn't see anything that actually addresses the confidence problem. Here's one simple question: who's liable for the damages/complications from the vaccine. The answer: it's complicated. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/16/covid-vaccine-side-effects-c... https://fortune…

> But why should it be? If you trust your product, that's a no-brainer to cover the consumer for damages. If you don't... This assumes a lot of things about the US legal system that aren't really true. A company can get sued for anything. And the cost of litigation is nontrivial. In the US, by default, each party is liable for their own litigation costs. This means that if 20000 people decide to sue Pfizer (you know,…

> In the US, by default, each party is liable for their own litigation costs. This means that if 20000 people decide to sue Pfizer (you know, 1% of 1% of the vaccinated in the US), Pfizer now has to deal with the litigation costs of tens of thousands of lawsuits.

They can recover those costs if the lawsuit is frivolous. And we're talking about a billion dollar company racking billions in profits fighting in court against... sick people robbed of their health's. A balanced fight indeed.

Re: Hospital exec says employees are walking off the job

#308

Post by dantheman »

mumblemumble wrote: post #203
dantheman wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard to call it a market failure when the government restricts new entrants and highly regulates every aspect of healthcare.

At least in the clinic a family member of mine owned, regulation was far from the biggest challenge. It was billing, especially interacting with private health insurance companies. Dealing with their labyrinthine systems costs a lot of money and time. The private insurance companies are a big factor driving the consolidation, too. As the care networks consolidate their negotiating power, it gives them more and more o…

Where do you think these cartels get their power? Does the clinic post their prices online? Do they provide estimates on what care will cost before it happens? If insurance is costly and troublesome can you compete on a cost basis?

Re: Hospital exec says employees are walking off the job

#309

Post by 908B64B197 »

nradov wrote: post #59
MattGaiser wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it absurd that we allow medical staff to work 24 hour shifts. We don't let pilots do that. We don't let truckers do that.

It's a complicated problem. Tired healthcare providers make more errors. But the majority of harmful errors happen in handing over patient care from one provider to another. Shorter shifts mean more care transitions. A patient in the ICU isn't like a truck that you can park and leave alone for 8 hours.

Keep this in mind when dealing with the medical field: They won't learn from anyone.

The culture of medical education in the west places doctors in a bubble where 48 hours exhaustion marathons are glorified and considered a rite of passage. Other fields have found ways to do handovers with minimal to no impact on the continuity of operations.

Re: Hospital exec says employees are walking off the job

#310

Post by joshuamorton »

908B64B197 wrote: post #307
joshuamorton wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But why should it be? If you trust your product, that's a no-brainer to cover the consumer for damages. If you don't... This assumes a lot of things about the US legal system that aren't really true. A company can get sued for anything. And the cost of litigation is nontrivial. In the US, by default, each party is liable for their own litigation costs. This means that if 20000 people decide to sue Pfizer (you know,…

> In the US, by default, each party is liable for their own litigation costs. This means that if 20000 people decide to sue Pfizer (you know, 1% of 1% of the vaccinated in the US), Pfizer now has to deal with the litigation costs of tens of thousands of lawsuits. They can recover those costs if the lawsuit is frivolous. And we're talking about a billion dollar company racking billions in profits fighting in court aga…

> And we're talking about a billion dollar company racking billions in profits fighting in court against... sick people robbed of their health's. A balanced fight indeed.

No, in this hypothetical, we're presuming that the vaccine has no side effects. So these people aren't sick people robbed of their health, but either mistaken or agenda driven.

> They can recover those costs if the lawsuit is frivolous.

This is a high bar and isn't always even possible, depending on the jurisdiction. Often it requires things like the person filing the suit to know the suit is frivolous.

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