NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings • Hacker News Board

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#301

Post by mcguire » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:49 PM UTC

timr wrote: post #129

alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

I am pro-vaccine (and fully vaccinated), but I don't support this policy at all. I don't believe this will have much of a net effect on vaccination rate, I believe it will disproportionately negatively impact poor and minority populations in NYC who already have a bad/mistrustful relationship with health care and government, and it is obviously a huge new governmental intrusion into our daily lives. It might well lea…

"We have never before justified such intrusive government policies based on the risks faced by these individuals."

That would be false.

https://www.cde.ca.gov/ls/he/hn/immunization.asp

which points to

https://www.shotsforschool.org/child-care/

https://www.shotsforschool.org/7th-grade/

https://www.shotsforschool.org/k-12/

And then there's

https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-8-part-b-chapter-...

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#302

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:49 PM UTC

clukic wrote: post #197

Vaccine requirements have been in place for decades. For pre-K in NYC kids need shots for PCV and Hib. For kindergarten they need more shots: Hep B, Polio, Chickenpox, and Measles, Mumps and Rubella. Going to middle school? Then you'll need more shots, the TDAP and meningococcal conjugate. These are all vaccine requirements. Is it an invasion or privacy to demand children's records? Is it the nanny state? We could go…

[deleted]

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#303

Post by dotcommand » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:50 PM UTC

Everyone has to be vaccinated and we must all prove it to exist in society ( even people who had covid )? So, it isn't about herd immunity anymore? It isn't about stopping covid, but getting everyone the vaccine and forcing them to carry identification everywhere?

"It’s time for people to see vaccination as necessary to living a good and full and healthy life,” de Blasio said during his daily press briefing."

That's what people were saying was going to happen more than a year ago and they were attacked for being conspiracy theorists...

Whatever happened to needing 60 or 70% of the people vaccinated to gain herd immunity and stop this pandemic?

So 100% vaccination, even for those who had covid and you must carry documentation/id at all times? Why now? Why for this disease? Especially considering the mortality rate is far lower than what was originally projected.

When the projections were 5%+, I can understand erring on the side of caution, but the mortality rate is lower than 1% last I checked. So odd.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#304

Post by Daishiman » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:50 PM UTC

rajin444 wrote: post #252

Daishiman wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am in cohort #1. I don't want to continue to increase the chances of breakthrough mutations and I do not want others to do so. I do not want a substantial number of people getting sick and having to use collective resources to heal them at the expense of others because of a collectively bad choice. I do not want to substitute, work overtime, or have reduced productivity due to this. While vaccinated people are fair…

> I do not want a substantial number of people getting sick and having to use collective resources to heal them at the expense of others because of a collectively bad choice Why are you ok with using this argument for covid, but not smoking / obesity / football / etc.? The principle is sound, but the selective application is not.

I do not find it unreasonable that people who partake in high-risk activities or have high-risk lifestyles also contribute different amounts.

I am very much in favor of taxing cigarretes and unhealthy foods so that consumers pay for the externalities of their actions.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#305

Post by ajsnigrutin » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:50 PM UTC

orblivion wrote: post #223

afavour wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And literally anyone who wants a vaccine can get one. Literally not true. Kids under 12 are not able to be vaccinated, which puts a limit on the activities they and their families can do. If they're able to know that everyone inside a restaurant is vaccinated they'll be more likely to visit. > It might well lead to anger and violence (as similar moves have across Europe). Not really. There were some minor protests…

> If they're able to know that everyone inside a restaurant is vaccinated they'll be more likely to visit. This is why I argue with some fellow libertarians on the idea of private company vaccine mandates. There's a place for it, such as this. Restaurants could differentiate this way. Different people have different needs. A government level mandate like this is insane.

Considering that vaccinated people can still carry the virus, and very few of those services are mandatory to survive, the minority can still stay safe at home, and the others can decide by themselves if they're willing to risk it.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#306

Post by bart_spoon » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:52 PM UTC

tomp wrote: post #140

alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

4) You oppose tyranny. People should be free to make their own choices. By going out unvaccinated, I'm not putting anyone in danger, except those who choose to be endangered (not isolating / sheltering at home, unmasked, unvaccinated). 5) You oppose discrimination. I'm immune but not vaccinated. Where's my immunity certificate?

People are still free to make their own choices. The government isn’t holding you down and jabbing your in the arm. What’s happening here is that you are not being allowed to engage in particular aspects of society based on your choices, the same way you are prohibited from smoking in certain areas, from entering a bar if you are under 18, or driving your car on the wrong side of the road. Human societies are a trade off in which you forfeit certain individual rights in exchange for collectivist benefits you wouldn’t have otherwise. You aren’t “opposing tyranny”, you are simply angry you aren’t being allowed to leech off of society.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#307

Post by tastyfreeze » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:52 PM UTC

jstanley wrote: post #216

tastyfreeze wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Off topic but, there is nobody that is unable to get an ID in the US if they want one.

I don't actually know, but it seems unlikely that illegal immigrants can get an ID from the government?

Well, they could get one if they wanted but it takes a few extra steps. Namely, becoming a legal citizen.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#308

Post by throwitaway1235 » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:52 PM UTC

Does anyone believe this will be expanded to grocery stores, pharmacies and other basic services come fall? My job is already close to pushing mandatory vaccination and I'm trying to decide whether I should pack up my things and leave?

30 year resident and heartbroken.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#309

Post by mcguire » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:52 PM UTC

timr wrote: post #154

afavour wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And literally anyone who wants a vaccine can get one. Literally not true. Kids under 12 are not able to be vaccinated, which puts a limit on the activities they and their families can do. If they're able to know that everyone inside a restaurant is vaccinated they'll be more likely to visit. > It might well lead to anger and violence (as similar moves have across Europe). Not really. There were some minor protests…

> Literally not true. Kids under 12 are not able to be vaccinated, which puts a limit on the activities they and their families can do. If they're able to know that everyone inside a restaurant is vaccinated they'll be more likely to visit. This policy is also hysterical, and not based in science. Kids should not be under any restrictions due to SARS-CoV2. Please see my comment from yesterday as to why I believe this…

...and this is why the US does not and will not have universal health care.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#310

Post by some_hacker33 » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:52 PM UTC

AndrewBissell wrote: post #45

Fond memories of the days this was the sole domain of paranoid conspiracy theorists. Now, at the exact same moment that we are getting evidence of the mRNA vaccines' rapidly waning efficacy[1] and ineffectiveness at reducing transmission of the Delta variant, the screws are being tightened and the unvaccinated are being scapegoated. Never mind that this variant arose in India where there was never any possibility of…

Got a better source? This website contains misinformation.

https://swprs.org/face-masks-evidence/

> E) The facemask aerosol issue

> In the following video, Dr. Theodore Noel explains the facemask aerosol issue.

https://factcheck.afp.com/doctor-expired-license-falsely-cla...

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/feb/08/facebook-p...

the fact that we have accounts on here with large amounts of reputation reposting facebook-based misinformation does not give me faith that leaving these choices up to allegedly informed individuals is a good idea. as others have pointed out, 99.99% of people are in no way qualified to make such determinations.