Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#301

Post by jmspring » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 2:27 AM UTC

hourislate wrote: post #239

This doesn't surprise me, I assume Apple has a lot of contractors/H1B's. It would make sense they want them at the shiny new HQ they built to keep a closer eye on them. Be a shame if no one was using the campus after they spent all that money. Tim Cook is Apple, his whole life is defined by that Company, he expects it to be the only thing in his employees lives too. There are shareholders to satisfy that would demand…

It's a gross generalization on my part, but during the height of covid most of the bay area was dead. Only the union city/fremont/milpitas area seemed to have much real activity. And most of it was of asian/east asian descent. I'm wondering if companies were lording H1/visa status over people and requiring they be in person.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

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Post by katbyte » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 2:27 AM UTC

iab wrote: post #260

rubicon33 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what most of the newcomers to WFH don't understand: There is a big different between WFH for a few months where EVERYONE else is also WFH ... and WFH for YEARS where some, or most, of the others are in office. The latter is years upon years of feeling disconnected, left out, and sidelined. The vast majority of companies even if they allow remote are not remote first. Remote first involves actual structural an…

I always thought I would be a sure-fit for permanent WFH, but your comment absolutely nails it. My biggest problem is that a large proportion of interactions with remote work is formal, in a sense. No casual chat, no social “grease”. If you started a remote-only job in a pandemic, it is so easy to become disconnected, and disincentivized with colleagues that only exist in 2D asking for PR reviews. Really did a number…

Wfh pre pandemic is not the same as wfh during the pandemic. Usually my team gets together 2-3 times a year and can’t wait till we can again

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

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Post by sinoue » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 2:27 AM UTC

By not letting folks have two work from home days in a row or on Fri/Mon, Apple is pretty much saying that you can’t really work from your remote home. This is going to keep folks close to Cupertino instead of letting folks work from Sacramento, Tahoe, Beach and it means couch surfing close to the office for the other 3 days. Bummer as it means less time w/family & pets for a lot of folks that moved out of the Bay area.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#304

Post by plusCubed » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 2:28 AM UTC

ehsankia wrote: post #263

plusCubed wrote: post #16

Interesting, similar to Google[1]... I wonder if 3 days in-person will be the new paradigm for big tech companies. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/6/22422518/google-hybrid-wor...

The subtitle of your very url is: > While 20 percent of its 140,000 employees will be fully remote Also, further down > While Google says the majority of its employees will work from the office around three days a week, it also says it’ll make it easier for employees to switch between offices or to work fully remotely. Meanwhile, the subtitle of OPs is: > Employees can work remotely for up to two weeks a year And the…

Fair enough, "same" is overstating it - edited.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

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Post by gfodor » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 2:28 AM UTC

sersi wrote: post #217

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I maybe in the minority in this comments section but I genuinely enjoy working from office. In my experience, plenty of people enjoy working from the office. Many of us enjoy a mix of in-office and WFH. The comments sections on these articles tend to receive a lot of projection from people who simply hate their jobs and view WFH as a partial antidote to that. That, and a lot of comments from people who have absurdl…

> The comments sections on these articles tend to receive a lot of projection from people who simply hate their jobs and view WFH as a partial antidote to that. I resent the implication that I like WFH because I hate my job. I love my job, I'm good at it and I'm a bit of a workaholic by most standards (but wouldn't if I didn't genuinely love it). However, over my career, I found that I'm much more productive when wor…

If a person says "a lot of people like X because they hate Y" they are not saying that if someone likes X it implies Y. When I catch myself inverting conditional probabilities into a frame that makes me feel attacked it usually means that I've got some other thing going on that has nothing to do with what the person said.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#306

Post by bootlooped » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 2:28 AM UTC

MeinBlutIstBlau wrote: post #132

Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

Yeah but you get the most bang for your buck out of rent. What's the point of renting in NYC or SF if your only there for like 2 hours.

People put up with small NYC (and I'm assuming SF) apartments because there is so much going on in the city you'll hardly be there. If you wanted to get the most bang for your buck out of rent you'd move to Dayton Ohio or some other place where the cost of living is ultra low (for the USA).

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#307

Post by mixmastamyk » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 2:29 AM UTC

musicale wrote: post #270

jjeaff wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely there are other reasons to leave your home than work and other people to socialize with in person than co-workers.

> Surely there are other reasons to leave your home than work and other people to socialize with in person than co-workers. I wouldn't be surprised if people who don't have local family or established friends in the area and live in cities where talking to strangers is considered threatening behavior tend to socialize primarily, if not exclusively, with co-workers.

Meet

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#308

Post by 0xbadcafebee » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 2:30 AM UTC

decremental wrote: post #179

pseudalopex wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They wouldn't call it religion if they wanted a conversation.

On the contrary, calling it out for what it is is the conversation that needs to be had. Frankly, I think he falls short of identifying the new secular religion that has taken over western civilization. You can identify its followers by the language they use. Anti-Maskers, Science Deniers, Conspiracy Theorists. All new-speak for what was once referred to as heretics. The religious drive is an instinct that humans nev…

Secular religion is an oxymoron. Sure, the secular world is slowly being taken over by "new" belief systems, but it's not necessarily a bad thing. Hell, religion isn't necessarily a bad thing. But anything drastically new is taken as a threat, and it would seem that one aspect of the modern "culture war" phenomena is the perceived threat of these new belief systems encroaching on old belief systems.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#309

Post by ChrisArchitect » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 2:31 AM UTC

Quote that stuck with me:

"my fear is the biggest cost in the long run is all the single young men come in five days a week, and college-educated women with a 6-year-old and an 8-year-old come in two days a week, and six to seven years down the road there’s a huge difference in promotion rates and you have a diversity crisis"

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#310

Post by cgio » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 2:31 AM UTC

k-mcgrady wrote: post #60

"Cook wrapped up the memo by saying that he's looking forward to seeing employee faces. "I know I'm not alone in missing the hum of activity, the energy, creativity and collaboration of our in-person meetings and the sense of community we've all built," he wrote." CEO's all spout the same nonsense. The majority of people work because they need to earn money. They're not working to make a new 'family' or change the wo…

CEOs and leadership teams would not mind remote work I believe, at least not as a general rule, given there are benefits to the bottom line, e.g. real estate, other expenses, productivity arguably. What I think is the key concern for leadership teams, is that remote work does not allow for an environment to train the next generation of workers. Most of the experienced people do just fine remotely, but imagine wfh exclusively as a grad. That said, even that concern might be from the perspective of an "old" generation, given young people can probably navigate online collaboration more effectively and therefore adapt to learn the job with less face to face guidance.