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Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

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Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#301

Post by 0x000000E2 »

vmception wrote: post #221
walrus01 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be operating from the position that there is nothing morally wrong with the one percent using every available loophole to pay as little taxes as possible. I'm sure all the laws and corporate structures Mossack Fonsecka made use of for their clients were perfectly 'legal' in the jurisdictions in which the paperwork and shell entities exist(ed). Where I think we have a significant difference of opinion is w…

Our particular comment thread doesn't show me having any strong opinion on anything. You have to assume that the absence of disdain means tacit consent. I do personally hate ignorance and always had high marks on reading comprehension, our conversation was exclusively congruent with me saying a different source of truth conforms to reality and the authorities in this reality.

> I do personally hate ignorance and always had high marks on reading comprehension

It's unusual to be both very smart and hostile to those you consider lessor than you but carry on I guess

Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#302

Post by R0b0t1 »

closeparen wrote: post #129
gzer0 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you are making more than $400,000, the new tax proposals would not affect you. What is your definition of "middle class"? Someone making $400k is most certainly in the top 1%. What tax changes have occurred so far in the past few decades that are significantly affecting you? I would genuinely like to know

Owns a reasonable home in a decent school district with a commute around 30 minutes. Eats out a few times a month. Takes 1-2 vacations a year. If upper middle class, savings adequate to gradually upgrade housing, send kids to University of State, etc. If regular middle class, home will be maintained against entropy and kids will take out student loans. Either way, will retire at the usual time. In some places $400k c…

As noted this is not really true in most locations, but I still would not feel bad about the person earning $400k. They live in a desirable location. They can move if they wish.

Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#303

Post by ixacto »

philjohn wrote: post #275
ixacto wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should people in states that do not have an income tax have to effectively subsidize the SALT tax deduction? Maybe it will make ca/ny think twice about having such high tax rates…

Do they fund the SALT deduction? NY and CA pay more in taxes to the Federal government than they receive back in inward investment. Sounds like it's the states with no state tax that are being subsised to me.

WA/TX/FL do not have an income tax and still pay more to the Federal Government than they receive.

IMO the SALT deduction is a horrible thing and allows state governments to become way too bloated.

Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#304

Post by [deleted] »

ixacto wrote: post #227
toast0 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah that was a good one; promise a tax cut for the rich, and give a slight tax cut to the rich in low tax states and screw people in high tax states (which happen to mostly be were the proposer of the tax cut didn't get votes anyway). On the plus side, between the limit on SALT deduction and the increased standard deduction, the mortgage interest deduction is almost effectively dead; which is something that has need…

Why should people in states that do not have an income tax have to effectively subsidize the SALT tax deduction? Maybe it will make ca/ny think twice about having such high tax rates…

[deleted]

Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#305

Post by mahogany »

fighterpilot wrote: post #127
modo_mario wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The top 1% pay 6x more tax than the bottom 50%! And yet their share of wealth keeps on growing and growing for decades. Curious.

Primarily because their unique value add to society has been growing (due to technology), and the unique value add of the bottom 50 percent has been decreasing (due to technology and globalization). Take JK Rowling as an example. Her work added significant value to the lives of hundreds of millions, and she got a slice of all that value creation (say, 30 percent of it). Nobody is worse off. Everyone is better off. He…

Do you think monetary wealth is gained only when someone adds value to society (and in proportion to the value added)? If so, what is your definition of value?

Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#306

Post by throwaway3699 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #155
throwaway3699 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Redistributing wealth is not the primary purpose of taxes.

> Redistributing wealth is not the primary purpose of taxes Yes it is. Also of government, more generally (well, power, of which wealth is a subset.) Before the modern era, this was pretty consistently upward redistribution, aka concentration.

The primary purpose of taxes is to build bombs and train soldiers to defend the realm. Everything else is secondary. Imo the government does too much, but that's a whole other debate.

Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#307

Post by Red_Leaves_Flyy »

cletus wrote: post #217

So here’s several things I’m in favor of: 1. A loan is treated as repatriating any offshore foreign income that you might have; 2. We need to eliminate it at least tackle transfer pricing / profit shifting. One way to do that is to apportion profits based on revenue. 3. Residential units owned by corporations need to be taxed higher; and 4. Owning property in a country or state should make you a tax resident of that…

>4. Owning property in a country or state should make you a tax resident of that jurisdiction.

How should that work in practice?

Should a person who owns homes in Connecticut, California, New York, D.C., Virginia, Florida, Alps, Paris, Hong Kong, London, Etc be paying state taxes in every jurisdiction? I'm asking in earnest, and want billionaires to pay significantly more in taxes per dollar of gains and wealth than, e.g. Americans making median income, but how can that be enforced when it's less expensive to bribe/extort a politician/party than it is to pay their fair share?

Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#308

Post by fighterpilot »

mahogany wrote: post #305
fighterpilot wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Primarily because their unique value add to society has been growing (due to technology), and the unique value add of the bottom 50 percent has been decreasing (due to technology and globalization). Take JK Rowling as an example. Her work added significant value to the lives of hundreds of millions, and she got a slice of all that value creation (say, 30 percent of it). Nobody is worse off. Everyone is better off. He…

Do you think monetary wealth is gained only when someone adds value to society (and in proportion to the value added)? If so, what is your definition of value?

I think money earned through voluntary exchange is highly correlated and generally in proportion with value add to society. If we zoom in to particular examples, most of them fit into this category.

You pay Netflix $15/month because you think it adds more than that much value to your life. Netflix earning that income is a consequence of your judgement of the value add of that service to your life. If Netflix makes billions in profits, it's because people like you thought that it added that much value (and more) to their lives. The same reasoning applies to most things (groceries, personal trainer, hairdresser, etc).

There are ways that people can get rich that definitely aren't proportionate to their value add. Cronyism, externalities, hijacking people's dopamine systems, and so on. That's why we need a government that can implement the right policies that maximize the correlation between money earned and value add.

There's also things that add large value through positive externalities that don't result in getting rich, such as scientific research, where it's very hard to privatize the benefits.

A big problem we have in this discourse is the conflation of the two ways of making money (value add vs extraction) into a single bucket (on the far-left it's all extraction and on the economic-right it's all value-add), which is having a terrible impact on our ability to think clearly about policy and is making regular people resentful and jealous instead of thankful towards the most productive people in our society.

Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#309

Post by crmd »

Red_Leaves_Flyy wrote: post #307
cletus wrote: post #217

So here’s several things I’m in favor of: 1. A loan is treated as repatriating any offshore foreign income that you might have; 2. We need to eliminate it at least tackle transfer pricing / profit shifting. One way to do that is to apportion profits based on revenue. 3. Residential units owned by corporations need to be taxed higher; and 4. Owning property in a country or state should make you a tax resident of that…

>4. Owning property in a country or state should make you a tax resident of that jurisdiction. How should that work in practice? Should a person who owns homes in Connecticut, California, New York, D.C., Virginia, Florida, Alps, Paris, Hong Kong, London, Etc be paying state taxes in every jurisdiction? I'm asking in earnest, and want billionaires to pay significantly more in taxes per dollar of gains and wealth than,…

Yes, they would have a tax liability in each location, with foreign tax credit offsets. So they end up paying whatever is the highest tax rate.

Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#310

Post by throwawaysea »

aantix wrote: post #168
odiroot wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being a software engineer in a EU country, you're definitely not a classically rich person. In USA, maybe? In EU not so much. There's so many professions (quite common at that) that earn more, or even much more than us.

Why aren’t software engineers valued more in EU?

Historically the very best software engineers outside the US simply immigrated to the US, joined a Silicon Valley company, and made a good living. The quality of those left behind, who didn’t have the same mobility, was on average lower. So companies didn’t have good reason to open an office elsewhere. This was especially true before the Internet, since collaboration was much more difficult. These days there are probably great engineers in many locations, but it takes time for their local tech economy to catch up to locations with concentrations of employers and employees like Silicon Valley. They need employers to open local offices (attracted by cheaper or better talent), and then for competing employers to also do so, in order to change the supply demand dynamics to favor software engineers. Then their salaries will rise accordingly.

Another part of the equation: in today’s age of massive aggregation around a few gigantic tech monopolies in the US, those few companies are able to pay large salaries because they derive a lot of value from their employees. But the reality of compensation is not very dissimilar between the US and other locations once you remove FAANG from the equation. FAANG companies employee a very highly selectively chosen segment of software developers who can command high value, but are also a tiny slice of the market. But the majority of software engineers in America are not employed in FAANG or compensated that way.

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